Author Topic: Need help.  (Read 768 times)

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Offline New Hampshire

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Need help.
« on: October 28, 2004, 12:32:41 PM »
Ok, Ive got a topic over on the Bowhunting section about a certain buddy at work who likes to try and state as a fact that which is only his opinion.  But, alas, he also does this when it comes to the world of muzzleloaders.  So, like the bowhunting forum, I am asking for folks to chime in on THEIR experinces and opinions on these topics I am about to state so I can see if he is really lost or not.
First thing is this.  He has a T/C White Mountains carbine (with a scope on it.....ugh  :grin: .)  He shoots patched balls in it.  Well, one day he told he likes to notch an X in the top of the ball because "it makes the ball expand better."  HUH?  I told him that wouldnt do nothing because a lead sphere kinda "pancakes" like a rifled shotgun slug would.  Well he wasnt buying that and refused to believe me.  He says he has never lost a deer he shot cuz the ball always goes in then out.  Now, if the ball "expanded" wouldnt you think it would stay in the deer because it dumps its energy better?  I just cant believe him.  It dont make sense.  He also says he can take deer out at 200 yards if he wanted to (again, using patched balls in a .50 cal White mountains carbine.)
Then, he tells me he likes to shoot 2f on top of a small charge of 3f.  He claims it makes guns more accurate (notice I said "guns" I dont believe he was talking about just his,) and "more reliable in wet weather."  Sure, I bet.  He also feels it is necessary to measure each load out to the 10th of a grain perfectly (he is shooting Goex by the way.)  Another dumb statement?  Heck, as it was e was telling me he shoots 209 primers on his T/C.  I asked how that was pssible cuz a shotgun primer would need some sort of firing pin on the hammer to ignite.  He told me he had a special nipple.  Come to find out he is hooting MUSKET CAPS and calling them 209 primers.  Whats up with that?
And finaly, he told me "I took out the muzzelloader yeasterday, dusted her off, and checked to see if there was still a load in there."  I asked how long the thing had been loaded.  "at least a year or more."  I said he had better shoot the gun, clean it then reload.  "Na, why?"  I basically told him Blackpowder DOES break down after a while ya know!  "Aaah I measure all my loads and have NEVER had a misfire!"  I argued with him that it would take him NO TIME AT ALL to shoot, clean and relaod the gun for simple insurance you DONT have a misfire, but he would have none of this.  He says that "every time you fire the gun you do something to it so that the next time that ball wont come out and hit the same spot again!"  WHAT!?  How the heck would you know where the round in the gun already is going, if going by his reasoning.  He is so stubborn and believes he is right.
I want to state again that Im not looking to change his opinion.  What I want is for him to stop trying to prove as fact that which is only his opinion.  If this goes well I will print this topic to show him.  So, can y'all help me out?
Thanks,
Brian M.
NRA Life Member
Member Londonderry Fish and Game Club
Member North American Fishing Club
Member North American Hunting Club
Member New Hampshire Historical Society
Member International Blackpowder Hunting Association

Offline crow_feather

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Need help.
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2004, 01:09:36 PM »
New Hampshire,
It sorta sounds like no matter what we say (write), he ain't a gonna believe it anyways. I wish you luck with your problem.  Maybe the best thing would be to buy him a book for CHRISTmas on muzzleloading.

Best of luck

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline Ramrod

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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2004, 01:33:00 PM »
Excuse me for being blunt, New Hampshire, but why the hell are you calling this B.S. artist a buddy?
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline D.E.C

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NEED HELP
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2004, 01:50:46 PM »
SOUNDS LIKE HE NEEDS HELP, NOT YOU. HOWEVER......

HAVING SEEN MORE GUNSHOT WOUNDS THAN MOST PEOPLE I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT AN EXPANDING BULLET IS LESS LIKELY TO EXIT THAN ONE THAT DOESN'T EXPAND. ALSO A BULLET THAT EXITS A BODY WILL NOT TRANSFER AS MUCH OF IT'S ENERGY AS ONE THAT LODGES IN THE BODY, IT'S CALLED A TEMPORAL WOUND, (KINDA LIKE RIPPLES IN WATER). SOFT LEAD WILL START TO  FLATTEN OUT ON CONTACT. ALSO REMEMBER THAT ROUND BALLS LOSE ENERGY RATHER QUICKLY AS COMPARED TO CONICAL BULLETS SO A 200YARD SHOT WHILE NOT IMPOSSIBLE WOULD BE SOME WHAT IMPRACTICAL.

WHY DON'T YOU SUGGEST THAT YOUR BUDDY DIP THE BALLS IN GARLIC SO THE DEER WILL DIE OF GANGRENE SHOULD ONE EVER GET AWAY. ( ANOTHER OLD MYTH)

Offline Ramrod

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Re: NEED HELP
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2004, 11:51:16 PM »
Quote from: D.E.C
WHY DON'T YOU SUGGEST THAT YOUR BUDDY DIP THE BALLS IN GARLIC SO THE DEER WILL DIE OF GANGRENE SHOULD ONE EVER GET AWAY.


Tell him the story about why the Germans started rifling barrels back in the 1500's. Inaccurate shots were caused by little DEMONS riding on the ball and changing its direction. By giving the ball enough spin the little buggers are thrown off, and the ball flies true.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2004, 01:25:02 AM »
Never argue with a fool.....those watching might not be able to tell the difference.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline WD45

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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2004, 03:49:01 AM »
You cant reason with an unreasonable person.... :(
You need to find a new buddy before you get hurt because he did something stupid.
I sure hope this guy dont load smokyless  :eek:  :eek:
Glad I live in another state :lol:

Offline Ramrod

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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2004, 01:20:12 PM »
New Hampshire, as you can see, most agree that it is not worth arguing these points. You are right on target except for one little thing. Black powder properly stored does NOT break down over time, but pyrodex and the other fake powders do. Even if black powder gets wet, you can spread it out and dry it and it will be fine. But...common sense tells me there is no way to tell if a year old charge has not become damp or otherwise contaminated from oil or lube. Only an idiot would go out hunting with a year old load in his gun.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline roundball

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Re: Need help.
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2004, 01:43:22 PM »
Quote from: New Hampshire
Ok, Ive got a topic over on the Bowhunting section about a certain buddy at work who likes to try and state as a fact that which is only his opinion.  But, alas, he also does this when it comes to the world of muzzleloaders.  So, like the bowhunting forum, I am asking for folks to chime in on THEIR experinces and opinions on these topics I am about to state so I can see if he is really lost or not.
First thing is this.  He has a T/C White Mountains carbine (with a scope on it.....ugh  :grin: .)  He shoots patched balls in it.  Well, one day he told he likes to notch an X in the top of the ball because "it makes the ball expand better."  HUH?  I told him that wouldnt do nothing because a lead sphere kinda "pancakes" like a rifled shotgun slug would.  Well he wasnt buying that and refused to believe me.  He says he has never lost a deer he shot cuz the ball always goes in then out.  Now, if the ball "expanded" wouldnt you think it would stay in the deer because it dumps its energy better?  I just cant believe him.  It dont make sense.  He also says he can take deer out at 200 yards if he wanted to (again, using patched balls in a .50 cal White mountains carbine.)
Then, he tells me he likes to shoot 2f on top of a small charge of 3f.  He claims it makes guns more accurate (notice I said "guns" I dont believe he was talking about just his,) and "more reliable in wet weather."  Sure, I bet.  He also feels it is necessary to measure each load out to the 10th of a grain perfectly (he is shooting Goex by the way.)  Another dumb statement?  Heck, as it was e was telling me he shoots 209 primers on his T/C.  I asked how that was pssible cuz a shotgun primer would need some sort of firing pin on the hammer to ignite.  He told me he had a special nipple.  Come to find out he is hooting MUSKET CAPS and calling them 209 primers.  Whats up with that?
And finaly, he told me "I took out the muzzelloader yeasterday, dusted her off, and checked to see if there was still a load in there."  I asked how long the thing had been loaded.  "at least a year or more."  I said he had better shoot the gun, clean it then reload.  "Na, why?"  I basically told him Blackpowder DOES break down after a while ya know!  "Aaah I measure all my loads and have NEVER had a misfire!"  I argued with him that it would take him NO TIME AT ALL to shoot, clean and relaod the gun for simple insurance you DONT have a misfire, but he would have none of this.  He says that "every time you fire the gun you do something to it so that the next time that ball wont come out and hit the same spot again!"  WHAT!?  How the heck would you know where the round in the gun already is going, if going by his reasoning.  He is so stubborn and believes he is right.
I want to state again that Im not looking to change his opinion.  What I want is for him to stop trying to prove as fact that which is only his opinion.  If this goes well I will print this topic to show him.  So, can y'all help me out?
Thanks,
Brian M.


The best advice I could suggest is that YOU need to let go of this.
This has obviously got you into a high state of agitation and taking everything you say at face value, you're not going to change this guy.

Plus, shoving "other people's answers" in his face will destroy your "buddy relationship" for sure...so if that's going to be the end result anyway, you should just let go of this, walk away, and get on with your life.
"Flintlocks.......The Real Deal"
(Claims that 1:48" twists won't shoot PRBs accurately are old wives tales!!)

Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2004, 02:00:30 PM »
Some people don't know how to be wrong.  I measure men not by their mistakes but by how they fix them.  It's ok to be wrong, but when proven wrong then I admit it.

Your buddy sounds like he don't know how to be wrong.....I'm not a head shrinker but maybe he has an inferiority complex and needs to be right.  I've ran into a lot of people like this over the years.  If you like the guy and want to be friends then let him be right even though you know he's wrong.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline New Hampshire

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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2004, 03:10:00 PM »
Ya, I guess he does get under my skin some times.  Usually I wind up walking away just saying exactly what yall guys are saying "sure George, your right, whatever Im going back to work now."  And your right, he refuses to admit defeat.  Period.  Oh well, he is on vacation next week and I am going on my first official muzzel loader hunt tomorrow.  Its gonna be pretty rainy, according to the ole weather dude.  So Im hoping I waterproofed (rather water resisted) my gun as much as possible.  Gonna be hunting behind this very guys house in a swamp out there (hey I will give it to him, he sure as hell knows where them deer are, including a fresh 10 pointer......all 5 minutes walking distance from a New Hampshires largest city.)  Ive been told the deer are running into the swamp around 8 to 10, but Im readying for a long wet day just in case  :wink: .
So thanks friends for the advice.
Brian M.
NRA Life Member
Member Londonderry Fish and Game Club
Member North American Fishing Club
Member North American Hunting Club
Member New Hampshire Historical Society
Member International Blackpowder Hunting Association

Offline crow_feather

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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2004, 04:53:39 PM »
Will he be my friend too?

C F
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline lonewolf5347

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THAT BOY NEED HELP BAD
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2004, 01:02:10 AM »
There is a guy like that I know, and I stay far ,far away from people like that.god bless  :lol:  :lol:

Offline KING

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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2004, 03:14:40 PM »
:shock: The term..........FLAT LINE............comes to mind at present.  stay safe.King
THE ONLY FEMALE THAT I TRUST IS A LABRADOR.......AND SHE DONT SNOORE,AND DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT MY COOKING...THE ONLY GODS THAT EXIST ARE THOSE THAT HAVE ONE IN THE CHAMBER,AND 19 IN THE MAG.......