What is ideal (an aside from the 223 or 243 thread)

[aulrich]

For any type of hunting what makes a cartridge "ideal" and if a cartridge is not "ideal" when does it change from acceptable to marginal or unacceptable.   Do old rules of thumb still work ie. for deer ( 1300 foot pounds At 2000 fps or greater I have read as low as 1000 foot pounds) this is assuming a properly constructed bullet.

For me Ideal has two levels there is normal ideal and I spent big buck on a once in a lifetime hunt ideal.  Normal ideal would be like this say the head is 12 o'clock and the but is 6.  If the round is capable of getting to and through the vitals from 12-5 and 7 -12  and creating at least an inch of wound channel in the largest of what ever species. I would consider that  normal ideal.  Abnormal ideal would be any angle after going though a 12 inch tree.  

For me marginal and unacceptable start showing up when the talk of head and neck shots start showing up as routine.

[handirifle]

aulrich
To my thinking, acceptable is a round that will consistantly provide an effecient death in a timely manner.  Assuming the shot is placed in the vitals area of said game animal.  Naturly a 22lr is acceptable for squirrel but not for black bear.  Sure it will kill with a head shot, but good luck to the shooter. (or maybe not, might want them out of the gene pool.)

As far as a ft lb quote, those change a lot, but the common numbers now are 100 ft bs for deer and 1500 for elk.  This is the minimum amount of energy remaining at point impact.  So one must consider at what range you will limit yourself too with your particular cartridge and stay within that limit.

Common sense is the rule and maybe some have more than others, but by the same token, just because some choose to use nevk shots does not make their choice marginal.

I saw 2 perfect examples of a choice that illustrate.

On two separate outdoor shows I saw one guy take a 550yd shot at an elk, with a 300 Weatherby Mag.  Problem was he hit the ground about 10ft in front of the elk on the first shot.  He had no clue where to hold for that range.  The elk took off at a trot and eventually a full gallop and said "hunter" was blasting away.  Lucky for him, the elk ran closer to him and his FOURTH shot connected.  Pittiful display of marksmanshipand sportsmanship.

The next one was a guy after black bear somewhere up north.  This guy and his guide spot a trophy at a lasered 486yds out and is shooting, I think, a 300win mag.  The bear was sitting on his rump facing the hunter, with his chest exposed.

Difference, is this guy has already been proven an excellent marksman and long range shooter.  While standing with crossed shooting sticks, he nails this bear dead in the chest and you can see the dirt fly up behind the bear (an obvious pass through shot).  This bear just slumps forward and rolls downhill dead.

My point?  Great marksmen can make difficult shots seem normal and I for one won't question their ability to do so.

[handirifle]

Oops, forgot to mention, the bear was at 530yds.