Author Topic: looking for a 1000 fps springer  (Read 994 times)

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Offline DIVR6347

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« on: October 23, 2004, 05:04:23 AM »
hey
anyone make an budget priced accurate 1000fps springer??
i have a winchester 800x springer now and it shoots ok but it came with a p.o.s. scope and mounts and its really hard to be accurate with that pile of junk  i have heard tech force or maybe beeman or rws anyone have any suggestions   budget is $150 or so
thanks guys
divr6347

Offline dave

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2004, 06:22:21 AM »
No such thing. There are very few spring guns that can actually produce 1000fps consistantly without the benefit of detonation, and none are even close to the $150 mark. Just keep in mind you get what you pay for. Any reason you need 1000 fps? A typical .177 pellet isn't very accurate when fired at muzzle velocities in the 1000+fps range. Most do best in the 800-900 range. You may want to look at the RWS 94 at Compasseco:
http://www.compasseco.com/shop/products.html?maingroup=RWS&secondgroup=Air%20Rifles
Its rated by the retailer at 1000fps, but in reality expect 850-900. A very good budget springer, and spring/seal upgrades are available for more durability.
The RWS/Diana 34 is another one to look at. Its a bit more but an excellent choice. The 34 is a real quality gun, made in Germany by one of the most respected air rifles manufacturers in the world.



Offline Lawdog

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2004, 01:51:05 PM »
DIVR6347,

The RWS 94 comes close to acheving the 1,000 fps mark but only with the lightest weight pellets RWS can find.  Contary to what some think the Tech Force 99M in .177 give you over 1,000 fps. with the same weight pellets.  The Tech Force 99M is selling for $135.96 right now and is well worth the money.  I own one but in .22 caliber and it gives me an honest 900+ fps. using 12.7 gr. Silver Bear pellets over two different chronographs.  Go to http://www.compasseco.com/shop/products.html?maingroup=Tech%20Force%20Air%20Guns&secondgroup=Air%20Rifles to check out the Tech Force line of rifles.  If you have any questions about them got to http://www.compasseco.com/article_tf97_flagship.htm and read the review by Tom Gaylord on the lower cost version of the TF 99M, the TF 97.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline FOsteology

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2004, 12:35:40 PM »
Lawdog,

Based on your review and your continued recommendation of the Tech Force 99M in .22cal, I placed an order with Compasseco last week. Hopefully my TF 99M will arrive this week along with the Beeman mounts and BSA 3-12x44 airgun scope. :D
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Offline lilabner

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Some good information sources
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2004, 06:40:53 PM »
Here's a website where air rifle owners rate various rifles for accuracy, build quality etc:  reviewcenter.com/products9.html. Here's a website that gives the actual velocity measured by chronograph of various makes and models of air rifles: network54.com/Forum/79537. At the top of the page is a list of articles that are available. Click on "real world airgun performances".

Offline Lawdog

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2004, 12:31:20 PM »
FOsteology,

Unless you get a real dog of a 99M(and if you do Compasseco, Inc, will make it right) you should be very happy with it, just like the over two dozen others I know that have bought them.  Let me know how it works out for you and if you have any questions just ask.  Lawdog
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Offline VictorLouis

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2004, 02:46:14 PM »
Rest in Peace, Mr. President.
Ronald Reagan 1911-2004

Airguns? Please visit here :)

Offline DIVR6347

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1000 fps springer
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2004, 02:36:42 PM »
hey
thanks for the replies so far  
i dont really have to have 1000 fps but what im looking for is a very accurate budget priced rifle that will shoot accuratly for targets but take out the occasional squerril   my winchester would probably do it but its not that that impressive in the accuracy dept so i keep fiddling with the scope trying to get it to shoot better  
any suggestions on a very accurate springer that will dispatch a squerril
also  how about the tech force 97 in .22 cal or the 99m
thanks guys
divr6347   :D  :D

Offline Lawdog

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2004, 03:43:59 PM »
DIVR6347,

Quote
how about the tech force 97 in .22 cal or the 99m


Their accuracy rating's speak for themselves.

99M - c-t-c 0.13" at 10 meters
M97 - c-t-c 0.15" at 10 meters


Got to any of the othe sites, like Beeman, and check what their hunting rifle models accuracy ratings are?  Then check their price.    Lawdog
 :D
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Offline tallpaul

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Re: 1000 fps springer
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2004, 01:08:58 AM »
Quote from: DIVR6347
hey
thanks for the replies so far  
i dont really have to have 1000 fps but what im looking for is a very accurate budget priced rifle that will shoot accuratly for targets but take out the occasional squerril   my winchester would probably do it but its not that that impressive in the accuracy dept so i keep fiddling with the scope trying to get it to shoot better  
any suggestions on a very accurate springer that will dispatch a squerril
also  how about the tech force 97 in .22 cal or the 99m
thanks guys
divr6347   :D  :D


The power factor.... most are allured by the FPS numbers and from 30 years of shooting a HW50 which produces "only" 700 fps I can tell you that for the uses you state within reasonable ranges are quite doable. Most guns of the sam quality will shoot a bit better in the lower velocity figures. I am not saying the guns are not capable but the firing nature of the springers is such that the balance of power and performance and smoothness all come together to affect repeatability etc... I just loaned my 700 fps gun to a buddy that was "power hungry" and to his amazement the 20 or so squrrells in his yard did not seem to notice any difference other than he could hit them... AND do the job...
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Offline Lawdog

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2004, 07:20:27 AM »
tallpaul,

Velocity is important but so is the caliber and the two need to be added together for a hunting air rifle(target rifles usually are around 500 fps. in .177 caliber, not really suitable for hunting).  First a person needs to make sure the state they live in allows hunting small game or even pest control using an air gun.  There are some states that outlaw the use of air guns for anything other than target shooting(this in my opinion NEEDS TO BE CHANGED).  Then if your state does allow the use of air guns, do they mandate a certain caliber size for the taking of game?  Some of them do.  In California, for example, the taking of turkeys with an air rifle the rifle must be at least .20 caliber.  Not a problem if the rifle has the power to drive the pellet deep enough to reach the vitals of a turkey at ranges up to 50 or so yards.  This is what I mean that the velocity and caliber size needs to be added together to have a hunting air rifle.  Small groups and tight lines to you.  Lawdog
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Offline dave

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2004, 09:08:23 AM »
More important than velocity ratings and caliber is the ability of the shooter. All the power in the world won't do a bit of good if the guy holding the gun can't shoot it straight. A .177 making 750 fps(9.8fpe) at the muzzle has enough power to take a squirrel at 40 yards if the right pellet is used. All you need to do is hit it in the right spot-if you can. Power, velocity and caliber shouldn't be used as a substitute for ability, nor should they used as interchangeable terms. Power is the end result of pellet weight and velocity. Velocity itself does not make power, there must be sufficient mass along with it. Caliber size is not a guarantee of power either without sufficient velocity. Low velocity large caliber guns may not make any more power than high velocity small caliber guns. Either way, a gun shooting at 10 fpe is more than enough for any small game such as squirrels, crows, etc.  In the example cited above, hunting turkeys with an air rifle, the pellet doesn't need to penetrate deep if you're doing it right. The hunter needs to be able to make a head shot. Realistically thats the only way you're going to drop a 20+lb bird with an air rifle. So whats required isn't neccessarily a very powerful large caliber air rifle. Any rifle of sufficient accuracy and even moderate power, in any caliber, will do the job as long as the shooter is capable of doing his part.



Offline Lawdog

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2004, 10:36:51 AM »
dave,

Quote
In the example cited above, hunting turkeys with an air rifle, the pellet doesn't need to penetrate deep if you're doing it right. The hunter needs to be able to make a head shot. Realistically thats the only way you're going to drop a 20+lb bird with an air rifle.


WRONG!  We have taken seven turkeys with body shots in the last three years.  Please don't tell the three turkeys we have left as we don't want them getting up and running around in the freezer.  Wife won't stand for it.   :-D   Lawdog
 :D
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Offline dave

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2004, 11:07:56 AM »
LD the point I was trying to make was you can't just pick up a magnum power spring rifle and expect to be making consistant 50 yard shots on a 1 inch target the first day out. It takes lots and lots of practice, and no amount of power can change that.



Offline doc_kreipke

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2004, 03:48:46 PM »
Alrighty then! We finally have folk talkin' muzzle energy versus specific critters' specific body parts. That's what I like about Beeman and Webley: they publish the muzzle energies of their various products. MUCH more useful than velocity ratings, in my opinion.

Anyways, apparently about 10ftlb versus squirrel head & roughly 22ftlb versus turkey body should give desirable results. But how about the backyard pest equivalent of an armored vehicle?: The racoon.

Anybody care to speculate on how many ftlbs of muzzle energy would be necessary to KO a ring-tail demon with a head shot at around 10 - 20 yds? 17ftlb doesn't cut the mustard. That's the rating of my Winchester 1K (printed, not personally measured, though). Not long ago, I popped one of the blighters in the pate with an RWS Super Point (8.2gr) from said weapon at said range, but it just knocked 'im off the birdfeeder. He crawled away, grumbling and looking more annoyed than actually hurt.

I gotta say that I'm of the philosophy that varmint control is mostly business, not sport. Accordingly, I'm nothing loathe to take a body shot if the pest doesn't present me a nice head shot. (Somebody over in the Varmint Hunting Forum said that the legit target on a varmint is anywhere from the nose to the tail.) With that in mind, does anyone have any idea if there is a commonly available springer that could eliminate a racoon with a body shot? Or what muzzle energy would be necessary to accomplish such a task?

Thanks in advance for input.
-K

Offline dave

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2004, 04:56:46 PM »
I'd think the Crow Magnum would be up to it, and the Webley Patriot/Beeman Kodiak.  At near 20 yards, an R-1 would be suitable also. Of course, range would be a big factor too. Anything making at least 12 or 15 fpe at close range should do the job. Lots of raccoons have fallen to the likes of the 14-15fpe .20 Sheridan pumper over the years. You can't do a frontal assault on a raccoon without some serious firepower, if its a headshot its got to be between the ear and eye. The front of the skull is just about bulletproof. Even a body shot from a high power magnum is no guarantee. Make sure you hit the important parts, the heart/lung area, or you'll just have an angry critter running around.



Offline Lawdog

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2004, 08:47:02 AM »
doc_kreipke,

I’ve killed a couple of raccoons with a air rifle and my daughter has killed even more, she raises show rabbits(cost upwards of $100.00 each), most with body shots.  Reason we couldn’t use a rimfire is you can’t have the bullet exiting the animal to kill an expensive rabbit in another cage.  Head shots are not always possible because most times the raccoon has it’s head inside the cage either trying to get at the rabbit or trying to get the rabbit out of the cage.  You get within 60 - 70 feet and you can kill a raccoon with a body shot.  I would attempt taking raccoons with any pellet rifle that didn’t give at least 850 fps. in .177(here more is better).  The larger caliber’s work even better on these larger critters.  In a .22 caliber it should have at least 750 fps. to have the power to penetrate into the vitals of a large raccoon at 30 yards.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline tallpaul

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looking for a 1000 fps springer
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2004, 01:00:26 AM »
Lawdog- I am not really saying more power is bad... just with the hype out there comaperd to my experience over 25 years I know what a .177 at "lower" veleocity does. I however don't shoot unless I have the shot. A head shot to the front oh a head is bad in my experience- get one from behind the ear or where the vertebrae meets the skull and the coon wont be runnin far at all... they tend to have hard heads like some of us!  :D
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