Round balls out of the 45-70 - questions

[MtJerry]

I have a load for this that was given to me by a trusted friend.  It's a hornady .457 ML ball with 9gr. of W231 behind it.  Right now I am getting 1" groups with this at 50 yards.

My qustion is this - does anyone know of any printed data on these types of loads?

Are there any options of using this for more than small game?

Any idea of what type of velocity I'm getting with this load?

Can this be loaded to higher levels with black powder?

As you can tell, I have REALLY gotten hooked by the 45-70 bug!  I appreciate the info.

Jerry

[Paul5388]

Jerry,

I'm wondering why you're wanting to use round balls in the first place?  If it's for lowering the recoil, you might try Blue Dot loads at about 20.0 gr with a 300 gr Rem JHP at about 1450 fps.  There is more than enough energy for deer or hogs and the recoil isn't much more than a .30-30.  Even lighter recoil is 12.0 gr of Green Dot or Universal behind a 405 Rem SP for about 1050 fps.  Any of these loads will group at less than 2" at 100 yards and will probably be closer to 1".

Round balls aren't real efficient as projectiles and have a hard time getting enough weight to do the job (probably around 150 gr is all they weigh).  Since you are buying the round balls, there probably isn't that much difference in price between them and a regular rifle bullet.

[Cottonwood]

MtJerry

In Pat Wolfs Book of loading for the Springfield Trapdoor Rifle there is a section devoted to what is called Gallery Loads.  These were common place back when our US Troops were fighting on the Indian Frontier.  Regular ammo was not used for target practice as recorded in much data to be found.  You can find the link on my web site:

 http://the_montanan.tripod.com

So the round ball was used for target practice in these Gallery Loads.  You can get nice groups with the round ball at a reasonable distance.  I have used these to take deer with.

I used the following with a Springfield Trapdoor that I had and took a nice buck with it.  The round ball passed completely though and there was no recovery of the round ball.

Here is my loading for a Gallery Load:

45-70 Rem case or Starline
Fed 215 or 210 primer
FFg Goex using from 30-gr to 50-gr compressed
Card wad down over FFg
Lube or grease cookie from either SPG or my own Buffalo Gold lube
.45 cal round ball then seated on top of grease cookie or BP lube
Then add a bit of lube to cover top of round ball.

Here is a site for creating a Gallery Load using sabots either with round ball or pistol bullets:

http://willowlake.business.directnic.com/45-70_fun.htm

Now, I also agree with Paul5388 about using the 405-gr as discribed... there is plenty of knockdown and accuracy when loaded as he has posted.


I hope this helps  

[MtJerry]

Jon -

That's what I was looking for - THANK YOU!

Drop me a line next time you come to Great Falls.  The 45-70 is a new area for me and has really captured my attention.  Would love to chat with you over lunch about it.

Thanks again to everyone!

Jerry

[single shot shooter]

thanks  my computer crashed and i lost that site. thanks very much for posting it....hmmmm wonder if you could do the same thing witha  .44 magnum  :?:

[jbtazgrabber]

y357 and 3030  yes 44s ive shot a lot of tree rats and rabbits with rb and light loads,

[single shot shooter]

jbtazgrabber, if you dont mind my asking what load did you use in the .44 RB loads? thanks

[Longcruise]

I had good luck with round balls in my .44 using fffg BP.  Slightly compressed so the powder charge just allows seating the ball with the ball just a hair past half way into the case.  Then use the crimp mode to crimp the case mouth around the ball just a bit.  I used a .431 ball which is an oddball size that I cast for an oddball sized Italian percussion pistol.  The round balls were treated with Lee liquid alox.

Didn't use a grease cookie or wad but probably should have :grin:

It's not about how many grains of powder to use but rather the correct amount that you can seat the ball firmly on the powder with a bit of compression and get the crimp mentioned above.

These are not mild loads :eek:   They shoot pretty darn hard.

[single shot shooter]

when i get my loader i'll load some of them for the BIG squirlies . perhaps  groundhogs at 75 yards if accuracy allows