Author Topic: AFter market Handi parts  (Read 1757 times)

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Offline Nuttinbutchunks

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AFter market Handi parts
« on: November 03, 2004, 03:47:38 PM »
Does anyone manufacture custom stocks and stuff for Handis?
Ohhhh, I hate when that happens :eek:

Offline quickdtoo

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AFter market Handi parts
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2004, 04:06:54 PM »
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Cottonwood

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AFter market Handi parts
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2004, 06:27:57 PM »

Offline roostertails

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AFter market Handi parts
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2004, 09:04:12 PM »
You can get all kinds of custom and after market stocks for the Handi-rifles here
http://www.gunstocksinc.com/web%20pages/Plate%20Pic's/NEF%20stocks/Handi-rifle%20stocks.htm






                         


Offline Stan in SC

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Handi stock
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2004, 12:40:36 AM »
There is also a new stock out that resembles the collapsing stock of an CAR 16.
The more I listen,the more I hear....and vice versa.

45/70..it's almost a religion.

Offline HutchHandiMan

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Keep them in the 10 Ring my Butt, Keep them on the 10

Offline Joel

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AFter market Handi parts
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2004, 07:24:14 AM »
Just ordered the fiddleback maple standard(straight comb) buttstock with Pachmyr recoil pad, and the schnabel forend from them. Nice people to talk to; I hate ordering on the computer.  They're going to set my LOP to 14 3/4", which is what I have on my Handi now, and leave off the foreend swivel screw hole as I have a william's barrel band on mine.  I'll take off the pistol grip and make a straight grip out of it, like I've had on my handi for all these years.  In fact, I really like the stock I have on it now, the way I've modified it< but can't pass up the opportunity for that fiddleback maple.  Always wanted one on the Handi.

Offline MSP Ret

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AFter market Handi parts
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2004, 08:22:20 AM »
Joel, what was the total cost of theta stock. forearm, and recoil pad added? If you don't mind letting us knoiw and breaking it down it would really be of great interest here...What grade of wood is it? Least expensive, middle or most expensive. I don't mean to pry, but very interested..Thanks....<><.... :grin:
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline Joel

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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2004, 10:33:27 AM »
No problem answering:
Buttstock = $67.50
Recoil pad= $25.00( fitted to stock)
Schnabel FE=$45.00

Total cost(less shipping)=137.50.  Have no idea what shipping is and don't care.

He said It'd be about 2 weeks for delivery which suited me, what with PA deer season starting soon.  Wouldn't work on it until after the season anyway.

As far as wood grade goes, he only lists grades for Walnut at his site.  I did ask him about that, and he said its' "nice fiddleback grain".  I mean fiddleback is either fiddleback or it's not, huh.  From the pic's I've seen so far at his site, I expect it'll be nice wood; if not, I'll send it back.

Note:  I asked him about the barrel channel size, seeing as I have a 45/70 and he said all channels are routed to fit the standard 223 contour(whatever that is).  Most people have no problem enlarging it using wooden dowels and sand paper, according to him.  We are after all talking about something around 12" long.  While being a knifemaker doesn't make me an expert stockmaker, I really don't forsee that part being a problem.  He also asked if I wanted my forend screwhole drilled, and since mine is on nice and straight, I said yes.  Be a good idea to check yours, since some of them have apparently been attached to the barrel sort of cockeyed.  If they are, you might want to drill your own. I'm not worried about fore and aft fit, since I can grind down or use spacers to make it all fit.

I'll be finishing mine using leather dyes to stain the wood red/brown(much bettre wood stains then the hardware stuff...really penetrates), and finishing it  with Teak Oil, which is a low lustre Marine Linseed Oil finish with great penetrators and dryers added.  Takes the finish deep into the wood.   Makes for a great finish.  I have it on my current stocks and never had any problem with warping.  All in all, looking forward to doing this; an old time action like the NEF will look great in old time fiddleback I think; especially with that straight grip profile I"m going to do.

Offline marv

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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2004, 12:08:42 PM »
Joel  If you do it report back please I sure would like to know
 how you come out. Picture would be very nice, if possible.
 Good luck    Marv.

Offline MSP Ret

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AFter market Handi parts
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2004, 03:11:18 PM »
Thanks for the info Joel, I am sure I will be getting at least a nice long flat walnut forearm to start....<><.... :grin:
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline Nuttinbutchunks

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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2004, 04:24:33 PM »
WOW! Very cool  :eek:
Ohhhh, I hate when that happens :eek:

Offline bilesteve

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project
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2004, 07:10:11 PM »
Joel's selection and project seems really cool and I look forward to seeing that fiddleback maple with the Teak. By the way, what brand of Teak finish are you using?

Thanks.

Offline cgturner7

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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2004, 03:15:05 AM »
Joel- please tell us more about your finishing.  Are the leather dyes available commericially?  Like bilesteve said, what brand of teak oil are you using?  Do you have any pics of your other rifles finished this way?  I'm very curious to see how the fiddleback looks stained.  I imagine it looks great.

Offline Joel

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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2004, 05:40:26 AM »
A knife customer of mine who is a stockmaker told me about using leather dyes years ago.  He(and others) tend to use a lot of black dye on many stocks to highlight the Grain.  They coat the stock with it and then sand it off....the softer(darker) wood absorbs the dye more deeply and adds more contrast to the wood.  Since then, I've used those dyes, which I use on my Knife sheaths anyway, on my NEF's, Ruger #1, Winchester 69, Savage 24V etc...not to mention some of my friend's stocks that I've refinished. Did my first stock refinishing when I was twelve, and I'm sixty now, so I"ve tried just about everything you can think of; what I use today is what I most like.  There are other finishes just as good I'm sure, so it's up to the individual. I do have a picture of My 45/70 and one that show's part of the stock on my Savage 24V on the computer, but have no Idea how to host them.
     Leather dyes....we are talking alcohol based dyes, not the water based stains, are available thru Tandy leather at www.tandyleather.com, or thru any of the knife supply catalogs.  They all carry them for those who make sheaths.
I"ve used the Teak Oil from Watco(Lowes carries it) for years.  Tried pure linseed oil(takes forever and never dries really), tru-oil, Linspeed,(both of which are "OK"), Pure Tung oil(nearly as good as Teak oil), Danish oil(sucks) and a couple of the poly finishes, both on rifles and my Knife handles, and sort of just stumbled on the teak oil while shopping around.  Being a Marine finish designed to penetrate dense woods such as Teak and Mahogany and protect them from Humidity/salt air, it made sense it would work on other woods also exposed to the weather, salt(from sweat) etc. and it does.  Easy to apply...just slop it on, wait 15 minutes and slop some more on where it's been more fully absorbed.  Wait 30 minutes, then wipe off with a cloth and allow to dry for 10-12 hours( for to touch), depending.  I usually do two coats, just to for insurance.  The stock is then waxed after waiting a week for the finish to COMPLETELY dry.
Creates a deep, soft lustre type finish that really brings out the beauty of the wood.

In the case of this fiddleback maple stock, I"m going to finish it the way I do my maple knife handles.  After the wood has been sanded to 600 grit, it's dampened with a cloth and the grain is "raised" with a blow torch(any heat source works, even a stove burner...just be careful), and the "fuzz" is sanded off with 0000 steel wool. The process is repeated until the wood is smooth when dampened/dried.  Since this is maple, I'll use the blowtorch to slightly "char" the softer tiger stripe portion of the stock. Perhaps char is too strong a description..darken slightly with heat is more like it.  Basically I take the torch and move it quickly over the wood, working relatively small areas at a time.  As I sweep the torch over and over the same area, the wood gradually heats until the softer wood starts to darken slightly.  There is a fine line between darken and char. It's real easy to apply too much heat and burn the wood, so you have to have patience and a steady(and quick) hand while doing that.  The wood is then again sanded with 0000, and then heated a bit(in the oven set at 150 F) to open up the grain a little. Warm wood absorbs the dye better/deeper.  Then I wipe the dye on until I get the colour I think it's going to be.  If you use these dyes, I strongly suggest you wait at least 3 days before apply the finish so that the dye THOROUGHLY dries....otherwise it might smear.  A second point is that you need to wipe off any excess dye with a cloth so it doesn't "cake" on the surface.  After the dye is thoroughly dry, and the colour is such that I doen't need to repeat the process, the Teak Oil is put on and allowed to dry for ONE WEEK before waxing.  Patience is necessary, as I found out, to produce a really high quality finish; even though you can achieve satisfactory by hurrying the process. Up to you.  Those who have never used a torch to contrast wood, I don't recommend you start on your stock.....practice on a LOT of pine, or other woods first, since the way the torch is applied to the wood is a bit tricky......you have to kind of,uh, SWOOP the torch smoothly onto it.  If you stop moving for even a few milliseconds you get a black burn spot which is not always easy to sand out.  It's absorbing, fun and I get a lot of satisfaction out of refinishing stocks..you'd be surprised at the nice grain you sometimes find under that dye/filler the companies use.  By the way, I don't use filler at all, unless the grain is extemely porous, as it tends to obscure the grain.  Usually not a problem with good quality walnut or maple.

Offline cgturner7

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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2004, 08:26:12 AM »
Wow, what a process.  I bet your work looks outstanding.  How would you describe the final color?  Is it a dark, walnut-like appearance?  I've only seen fiddleback stocks that were left unstained and that light wood on a rifle just looks odd to me.  The nice grain that fiddleback has must look awesome when it is highlighted.  I would love to see a pic of some of your work if possible.  What do you use to wax it with?

I have wanted to buy the Stinger thumbhole stock but was unsure of which wood or laminate to get.  After hearing your process my mind is made up.  Fiddleback it will be, and a nice little winter project.

Offline Joel

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« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2004, 08:54:48 PM »
Heh, welcome to the "fiddleback club"....The colour I shoot for is a "medium" , rich,reddish brown; somewhat similar to what you may have seen on some of the old time rifles with straight grained walnut stocks.  They had had that great red toned colour to them. Also many of the old muzzle loaders were stained like that, but oxidation has darkened many of them to the point where its hard to see the grain anymore.  The natural Yellow of maple sort of grates on me, though some folks like it.  After a while, all wood oxidizes(darkens) so eventually it gets a bit more subdued.  On my current NEF stock on the 45/70, the wood(birch/beech?) was extermely dense and no matter what I did, wouldn't take a dark stain to it.  Finished out sort of "golden" looking, and I wasn't really happy with the colour, but the wood itself has some interesting grain to it(kind of fiddlebacked) so I left it alone. In the last 13 years, the wood has gradually darkened to nice golden brown...much more pleasing to the eye than the original colour.  If you want to limit the effects of oxidation(darkening) on your stock, use wood bleach on it before staining.  I usually don't bother.  The wax I use is an English wax called Rresaissance Wax.  It's a highly refined petroleum wax that is used by both American and British museums to restore and protect wood, metal, leather, marble etc etc.  You can find it at any of the Knife Supply catalogs, i.e. Texas Knifemakers Supply, Jantz, K & G etc.  I use it on my whole rifle, knives, sheaths.  Dry's almost instantly, and to a soft lustre that really inhance the wood/metal even more.  Expensive.....a small bottle weighing less than an ounce(65 ml) costs around $12.50, but you only use a tiny amount and that small bottle lasts forever.   It's the standard finish wax in the knife trade, just about eveyone uses it.   There are other good waxes out there though...maybe someone else has a favorite. I reckon we can both look forward to some enjoyable time this winter....have fun.  I know I will.

Offline Joel

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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2004, 09:05:27 PM »
Received my stock from them today.  It's an exact copy of the standard NEF stock with the schnabel, and the Pachmyr recoil pad fitted as I had asked.  He(Ed) had originally said he would supply the forearm with the standard 223 sized barrel channel in it, but he must have changed his mind, since this one has the 45/70 contour.  He also left the swivel hole off as I had asked since I have a barrel band on mine.  Did a beautiful job of fitting the recoil pad and leaving the LOP at 14 3/4" as I had asked.  The fiddleback grain in the wood runs both horizontally(lengthwise through the stocks) and also vertically with strong "tigerstriping".  I'm not a professional wood grader, but would grade this wood at somewhere between semi-fancy and fancy.  Wood feels nice and dry, only one small knothole(to be expected, and adds character): also, it's very dense.  I can't even see any pores in it, which is great because a lot of the tiger maple I've used has been fairly large pored.    It feels like the wood is sanded to around a 320 grit finish, not that it matters.  Can't wait to start on it, but PA rifle season starts the 29th, so have to wait until I have my deer(s).  Guess while I"m waiting I just might have to order the steel spacer and trigger guard......I mean, in for a dime, in for a dollar, huh?  I can take off the pistol grip now,  and could probably fit the butt, but I rather not touch it since I just did the final sighting in yesterday.  Highly recommend these folks, based on what I"ve received from them.

Offline bilesteve

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congrats
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2004, 05:54:31 PM »
Too bad hunting season starts so soon as I am dying to see some of these stocks with their final finish. May push me over the hump.

Offline bilesteve

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PS
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2004, 05:59:11 PM »
How about a picture of your knife stocks so we can get a look at this finish?