Author Topic: I love this gun  (Read 850 times)

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Offline Tn Jim

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I love this gun
« on: November 13, 2004, 03:54:34 PM »
Let me start off by saying, I am new to the Encore, but not to muzzleloading. I've been shooting Traditions and CVA Hawken rifles for 9 years. I bought a blued Encore 2 weeks ago and finally got to take it to the range to play with it. I only had 2 bullets to try, the first being the TC cheapshot and the second being the Buffalo Bullet ballet. Powder was Pyro pellets and loose RS. I swabbed the bore inbetween shots with TC's number 13 prelubed patches. My son and I fired a total of 35-40 rounds. At no time did I ever have a problem getting the sabot or the ballet down the bore. The pellet, cheapshot combination fired consistant two inch groups at 50 yards at about 2 inches high. Not great but acceptable considering I'm just starting off with it. The ballet and loose RS combination fired closer to three inch groups. This is where I ran into the only problem of the day. On three different occasions, when I fired the gun it went "Pfft" instead of "boom" and burning pyrodex blew out of the bore. No kick and no bullet hole in the target. I noticed the ballets slide down bore much easier in the Encore than in the Hawkens. I may be wrong but I think they fit too loosely to allow the powder to combust. ALL of the ballets were seated tightly on the powder. I have never seen or heard of this happening before. All my shooting will be done with Pyro pellets from now on. The next step is to try out the SSTs, Shockwaves(250 grain), and Powerbelt(295 grain) bullets. For the record, my gun uses a Weaver base, Burris Zee rings and a Nikon Buckmaster 3x9x40.  Any advice?
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Offline Chuck White

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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2004, 03:22:47 AM »
Jim;  I don't know for sure but I have a guess!
You didn't say whether your ML or your bullet was 45 or 50 caliber!

Are you positive you are not firing 45 cal saboted bullets in a 50 cal rifle?

That's is just a guess, I've never had that problem with Pyrodex!

Hope you get it figured out!
Chuck White
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just get good with it!

Offline Tn Jim

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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2004, 04:38:49 AM »
Sorry. Both the gun and the BB ballets are 50 cal. The Pyro RS and the ballets were used for the Hawken rifle I have. It is a conical, not a sabot. All I can say is it beats the heck out of me. I've never seen one do that before. But this gun definately shows promise with the Pyro pellets and sabots. Half the fun (and all the expense) of a new gun is finding out what it likes to shoot.
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Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2004, 09:39:44 AM »
I have shot almost a thousand rounds in my Encore M/L and not one time had that happen. Sounds odd to me.
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Offline AndyHass

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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2004, 11:30:54 AM »
I used to shoot the ball-et in a tight-bore Traditions Deerhunter and it was ok...but just ok.
  My guess is your problem is a fairly loose-fitting bullet combined with 209 ignition.  The ball-et has a short bearing surface (ie the length of bullet that contacts the barrel) compared to most conicals.  This means it will create less resistance to being pushed down the bore by the ignition.
  209 primers are a poor comprimise sprung out of convenience, not because they are ideal for use in muzzleloaders.  Look at the tiny primers used in high power rifles compared to that monster 209.  The reason is, in a shotgun, the powder must be fully ignited and build pressure before the crimp on the shotshell breaks open, since the shotgun wad/shot column form a very poor seal as they fly down the barrel.  This requires a lot of flame!  Hence the 209 design.  In a regular rifle, the bullet creates lots of friction as it has a tight fit all the way down the barrel...so the powder is ignited and burned more gradually as it has the barrel length to combust.
    In a ML, 209s are WAY overkill.  They are much more like a rifle than shotgun, yet 209 primers are self-contained and are big enough to insert and remove by hand.  This is the ONLY reason why they became popular in muzzleloaders.  As Redhawk and I can attest, the conversions available to use rifle primers in ML rifles work wonderfully.
    Back to your case.  When that 209 goes off, it has enough power BY ITSELF to blow your bullet from the barrel!!  If you don't believe me, try firing a load without powder (but just in case, do it in a gun you can push the load out through the breech if I'm wrong!).  I've seen this happen.  Likely, your ball-et did not create enough pressure to let the pyrodex ignite and combust correctly before the 209's power blew the whole load down the barrel and out the muzzle.  Try a longer conical or stay with sabots and you shouldn't have a problem.
   I am certain there is nothing wrong with your equipment.  That's my opinion! ;)

Offline Wolfhound

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Re: I love this gun
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2004, 12:25:47 PM »
Quote from: Tn Jim
This is where I ran into the only problem of the day. On three different occasions, when I fired the gun it went "Pfft" instead of "boom" and burning pyrodex blew out of the bore. No kick and no bullet hole in the target. I noticed the ballets slide down bore much easier in the Encore than in the Hawkens. I may be wrong but I think they fit too loosely to allow the powder to combust.


You were using loose powder right? I've had this happen with Powerbelts in a Knight with pellets before, but never with loose powder.  The pellets just didn't ignite fast enough to obturate the bullet in the colder temps. Don't know why it would happen with loose powder although Andy's idea is possible.

Offline jbtazgrabber

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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2004, 07:09:56 PM »
realy check the sabot pack.. are you to shoot 44bullets 4.29 or 45 cal5.52 dia bullets???

Offline upnorth

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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2004, 03:48:34 AM »
it's possible that swabbing with a lubed patch may have allowed lube to build up on the flash hole, preventing proper ignition. if you think about it, the sabot should fill in the lands of the barrel, so any lube left in them will be pushed to the bottom upon seating a round. maybe clean the barrel after 10 rounds, and check for lube build-up.
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Offline backwoodsboy44

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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2004, 07:18:24 AM »
The same thing happened to me the first time i took my encore out after firing a couple shots I felt the need to lube the 260 power belt I have always used lube in sidelocks. My gun dealer shoots the same gun and load and had told me the the pellts he uses pioneer creat moister when fired and no lube or spit etc. was needed. well that shot went woooosh some smoke and no recoil no hole down range and a clear bore. I told him about it and he said like i said don't use any lube. It has never done it again. i can shoot round after round 3in. group at 100yds.