Author Topic: Best presidents of the US in last 50 years?  (Read 1101 times)

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Offline huntsman

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Best presidents of the US in last 50 years?
« on: October 30, 2004, 06:23:09 AM »
IMO, this is how they rank:

1. Ronald Reagan (R-conservative) 1981-88. Impact: Brilliantly successful "Reaganomics" and winning the cold war on sheer force of will. Suffered most late in second term from Iran/Contra scandal, obsession with "Star Wars" military technology, and a decline in effectiveness associated with age and tendency to delegate.

2. George W. Bush (R-conservative) 2001-present. Impact: War on terror, doctrine of pre-emptive intervention vs. dangerous rogue nations, meaningful education reform. Suffers most from poor oratory skill that distorts an overt boldness of character and a general neglect of the broad domestic agenda.

3. George H. Bush (R-moderate with conservative values) 1999-2002. Impact: Liberation of Kuwait, tax reform, economic recession. Suffered most from the inevitable burnout of the Reagan-era economic boom.

4. Gerald Ford (R-moderate) 1974-1975. Modest gain in economy, stabilized presidency in wake of Watergate scandal. Suffered most from being the first Republican to hold office after Watergate, and from being appointed by Nixon.

5. Jimmie Carter (D-moderate) 1977-1980. Impact: International peace in Middle East, energy crisis, economic decline, and Iran hostage crisis. Suffered most from ineffectual decision-making, poor support and command of military, and economic fallout of energy crisis.

6. Bill Clinton (D-moderate with liberal values) 1993-2000. Impact: Seven years of steady economy and relative peace, failed promises of education and health care reform, sexual scandal that paralyzed presidency. Suffered from lack of purposeful vision, political gridlock in Congress for six years, and poor moral character late in second term.

7. Lyndon Johnson (D-moderate with conservative values turned liberal by vice-presidential post and later JFK assassination) 1963-1968. Impact: dubious escalation and poor prosecution of Viet Nam war; "Great Society" welfare state that greatly increased public dependency on federal government. Suffered from erroneous sense of government as a socialistic instrument, public protest against the Viet Nam war, and poor military command.

8. Richard Nixon (R-moderate with strongly conservative values) 1969-1974. Impact: Strengthened relations with China, ended Viet Nam war, most blatant abuse of presidential power in US history resulted in Watergate scandal and resignation before assured impeachment. Suffered from elitist bigotry, indignation for the rule of law, and violation of the oath of office.


IF ELECTED, BASED ON HIS TRACK RECORD AS A SENATOR, JOHN KERRY WOULD MOST LIKELY END UP RANKING SOMEWHERE BETWEEN CLINTON AND NIXON.
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Offline williamlayton

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Best presidents of the US in last 50 years?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2004, 03:17:35 AM »
Whats your take on Ike an Harry ?
Liked, and agreed with you, on tha others. Pretty honest, well thought out opinions.
Might put a slight re-arrangement of a couple, but I don't think it would be worth a discussion.
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Offline huntsman

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Best presidents of the US in last 50 years?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2004, 04:01:28 AM »
I realized after I did it that I only went back 40 years. Let's see, I left out JFK and Ike (Truman served thru '52).

[Hard to rate due to presidency being cut short by assassination, but probably #4]
John F. Kennedy (D-liberal) 1961-63. Impact: Martyred legacy lived far beyond actual impact of his actions. Ushered in era of social reforms. Energized space program and NASA, diffused Cuban missile crisis. Bay of Pigs disaster entrenched Castro as US antagonist for next fifty years and furthered global Cold War. Civil rights agenda led to prolonged internal turmoil, but ultimately gained long overdue rights for minorities. Suffered from nepotism, ties to organized crime, philandering, and (perhaps) powerful enemies within the intelligence community.

[#6 behind Gerald Ford, now at #5] Dwight Eisenhower (R-moderate) 1953-1960. Impact: Presided over greatest economic boom to date in US history. Began in earnest the arms race. Somewhat neglected domestic and social agenda. Suffered from command-style government model, nostalgic view of and laissez-faire policy toward global issues.
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Offline williamlayton

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Best presidents of the US in last 50 years?
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2004, 12:53:48 AM »
Now I liked Ike, so doan hit me, but I do not think anybody could have screwed up the economy during the time he held office.
I have always admired Harry S., so I had to bring him up. I would still put him in the top three.
Never been that great of an admirer of Ronald, on the screen or in office. Was a great speaker and very charismatic. He was a pretty fair statesman, better politician. Was always suspect of the power behind the thrown and her leanings.
JFK made Clinton seem a saint -admired his social agenda, to a point, was as strong an able a leader (better than almost all) as is mentioned.
Just me think.
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Offline Loader 3009

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Best presidents of the US in last 50 years?
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2004, 03:27:25 PM »
Klinton is the reason that Karter ain't dead last in my book.  An idiot....a freakin' idiot.
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Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2004, 11:24:32 PM »
Loader-
please expand.
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Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2004, 12:33:15 AM »
OK..........Karter is a imbecilic, liberal, bunny lustin' after, Panama Canal givin' away, mealy mouthed, hypocritical, United Nations lovin', one termin', foreign policy failing, national embarrassin', Kerry supportin' freakin' idiot.  Would you like me to "expand" further?
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Offline unspellable

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Rating the presidents
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2004, 08:18:48 AM »
I'd put Nixon above Clinton and Johnson on that list.  Nixons so called "crimes" actually amounted to less than Clinton's.  The big difference was the nature of the resulting hoopla.  If you're a republican they'll run you out of town fro dropping cigar ashes on the rug.  A democrat can get away with robbing the till.

As for Reagon and "Star Wars" don't believe what you hear from the big media.  As some one who has recently been working on the inside I'll say that the real story is very very very different.  And that's more than I am really at liberty to say about it.

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2004, 11:23:03 PM »
Clinton was one of the better minds we have had in awhile. His morals were no better/no worse than Nixon. Nixon was a far more flawed person, in a legal sense, than Clinton.
Clintons politics are not nearly as far to the left as is Kerry's and actually if you investigate, without looking to convict, he was more in the middle than Johnson.
Clinton did not give up the Panama Canal--That was done long time ago.
One must discern the proper responsibility before convicting the wrong person.
I do not understand the context of the statement concerning Reagan and "Star Wars". In the first place he was not intellectual enough (smart) to come up with the concept. He did accept the concept and run with it, though most attribute the idea to comics from the 50's. Ideas tend to be light years ahead of technology.
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Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2004, 11:38:10 PM »
Carter was an engineer, very bright, but as such his personality tended to bean counting, over managing, micro managing. He was not a strong leader, however, his morals are unimpeachable. As a man, he is one we would all do well to immolate.
I think your words concerning him are less than gracious. If someone were to say those things of you, I believe you might be on a mind turing off hunt.
Please stick to facts, argue facts and issues, and the less personal adjectives, the better understood the thought process will be.
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Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2004, 11:50:12 PM »
I agree.  He is one that we should IMMOLATE.  Should have been done years ago. :-D  :-D  :-D
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Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2004, 02:00:44 AM »
????-Oh well.
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Offline huntsman

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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2004, 03:06:42 AM »
Immolate: (vt) to offer in sacrifice, esp. to kill as a sacrificial victim.

Emulate: (vt) to strive to equal or excel.

Not meant as a barb, but it was a rather humorous  :-D and honest  :oops: slip of the keystroke, so to speak. 8)
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Offline IntrepidWizard

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Best presidents of the US in last 50 years?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2004, 03:39:23 AM »
There are a few salient points you boys left out.Katter did the Iran episode.Johnson faked a attack in the Gulf of Tonkin in order to go to war.Starting back with FDR--whether you want to believe it or not--the Communist infiltrated our government and were FDR's confidents[ex.Yalta},and he passed them on to Truman and he kept them knowing who they were [McCarthy was right on ,but a total egotist] and then JFK kept some of the Commies also.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2004, 05:54:30 AM »
Well--caught me on my misspelling--yer right. Oh well.
emulate was a word I was trying to use.
FDR is not in the time period we were referring to, but, there seems to be little legitimate facts to base this argument on. At best it can be argued that Great Britain had info they did not share-under the circumstances I am not sure I can fault this decision.
Johnson was Johnson and most in Texas knew he was not to be trusted.
Carter, however can not be put in the catagory of a bunny chaser, unless there is info I have never seen (or have even heard discussed).
There is one President after Ike that was rumored to be a closet homosexual. I have a pick for that one, even being a Texan.
Sorry for the confusion caused by my word choices.
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Offline JPSaxMan

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Best presidents of the US in last 50 years?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2004, 07:53:29 AM »
Lemme see...Kennedy, Yes. Johnson, No. Nixon, No. Carter, No. Regan, YES. George H., Yes. Clinton, No. Bush, Yes. Simple enough, eh?  :D
JP

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Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2004, 07:57:54 AM »
"There is one President after Ike that was rumored to be a closet homosexual. I have a pick for that one, even being a Texan."THINK FISHERMAN------------------THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2004, 08:06:11 AM »
But I do that so poorly ! :oops:
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Offline JPSaxMan

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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2004, 09:06:35 AM »
Oww...dat hurts  :)  :-D . Give us a clue, wizard.
JP

Attorney: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in
his sleep, he doesn't know about it until the next morning?

Doctor: Did you actually pass the bar exam?

Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

Offline Loader 3009

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Impossible standards....?
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2004, 05:00:26 AM »
Quote from: williamlayton

Carter, however can not be put in the catagory of a bunny chaser, unless there is info I have never seen (or have even heard discussed).
Blessings


Jimmy Carter The Playboy Interview - Excerpt

November 1976



Because I'm just human and I'm tempted and Christ set some almost impossible standards for us. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Christ said, I tell you that anyone who looks on a woman with lust has in his heart already committed adultery. I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times.... This is something that God recognizes, that I will do and have done, and God forgives me for it. But that doesn't mean that I condemn someone who not only looks on a woman with lust but who leaves his wife and shacks up with somebody out of wedlock.
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Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2004, 05:06:27 AM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shut up, Jimmy Carter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


By Debbie Schlussel



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

Jimmy Carter is a lot like Muhammad Ali.

Ali could have retired as undefeated champion in his boxing career. But he couldn't get enough of fame and fortune. So he returned to the ring when he had no business being there, and was beaten badly. Now, suffering from Parkinson's disease and what appears to be brain damage from repeated blows to the head, Ali is a virtual walking vegetable, sadly still trying to make himself relevant.

Then, there's Jimmy Carter. The former peanut farmer could have retired as repeatedly defeated champion.

He could have retired with his reputation as one of the worst presidents in modern history – both domestically and in the foreign policy arena. Or he could have retired from the spotlight as the president who told Playboy he had lust in his heart. And he could have stuck with his best skill – home-building for Habitat for Humanity, for which he's been lauded as a better former president than holder of that office.

But Jimmy Carter, like Ali, misses being important in the collective American psyche. He, too, is now trying, however futilely, to re-enter the ring, from which he was resoundingly KO'd in the 1980 elections, by a real champion, Ronald Reagan.

In a tasteless move uncharacteristic of former presidents, Carter is a man on a mission to make his irrelevant self, relevant again by tearing down President George W. Bush.

"I have been disappointed in almost everything he has done," Carter told the Columbus Ledger-Enquirer, a newspaper of questionable national significance, but likely the only media outlet that would provide a forum to this has-been, disastrous one-term president. In the lengthy interview, Carter attacked President Bush's foreign and defense policy initiatives.

His gall is incredible. Talk about disappointments. Remember Carter's foreign policy? The U.S. wore a virtual "kick-me" sign at the United Nations, with Carter's U.N. ambassador, Andrew Young, a willing participant. Carter's blind eye to Japanese automobile dumping was killing America's auto industry, resulting in a recession, mass plant-closings domestically, the Chrysler bailout, and 21 percent inflation. Remember Gucci-garbed Daniel Ortega and the Sandinista Communist totalitarians that ravaged Nicaragua – torturing and murdering its citizens, seizing farms and turning the country into a training ground for PLO and IRA terrorists and Castro's henchmen? We are now giving Nicaragua billions in grants and loans to subsidize its return to democracy after that Carter-imposed fiasco.

Significantly more strife around the world existed when Jimmy Carter left office than when he entered it.

Carter's hypocrisy in criticizing Bush's Middle East policy is amazing. Contrary to conventional wisdom, Carter is no expert on Middle Eastern affairs.

He ushered out the pro-U.S. Shah of Iran. And ushered in one of the most despicable, despotic world leaders – Ayatollah Khomeini. Iran's been in the throes of Islamic fundamentalism ever since, courtesy of Carter. Not to mention that – thanks to Jimmy Carter – Iran is one of the most unstable forces in the Middle East, second perhaps only to Saddam Hussein's Iraq, whose military arsenal and nuclear weapons capabilities Carter allowed to be developed. All of those terrorist attacks over the past two decades against American civilians and military fomented by the Iranian "government" and its Hezbollah buddies – thank Jimmy Carter for those. Remember the Americans held hostage in Iran? Another crown jewel of Carter's Middle East "legacy."

In 1979, Carter brought about that historic Camp David Peace Accord handshake between Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. But where is the peace? It was the beginning of years of worse terror than the region has ever seen, worse today than ever – both against U.S. servicemen and Israelis. And Egyptian Hosni Mubarak has announced, time and again, that he is not bound whatsoever by the Camp David agreement. So much for Carter's peace in the Middle East, where Yasser Arafat has begun his policy of brutally killing a Jew a day. This didn't happen before Carter started them down the road to "peace." More like piece – of paper.

But Jimmy felt good about it, and so did the Nobel committee. In Jimmy's world of diplomacy, that's all that matters. Not actual positive results.

Carter cautioned Bush not to neglect Africa. But Carter did. He allowed Communist forces in Angola to take over. He allowed Moammar Gadhafi to solidify power in Libya and make it a terrorist-host nation. All while his brother, beer entrepreneur and Good Ole Boy, Billy, took a $220,000 "loan" from the Libyan government to lobby for American transport planes and favorable U.S. policy for Libyan oil. Carter sat by, as Arab Muslims running Sudan continued to enslave, torture, rape, and murder millions of Black Christians.

But wait, there's more: Like a set of Ginsu steak knives, Jimmy Carter's foreign policy sliced and diced all over the world.

The Soviets' hegemony over Eastern Europe went unchallenged, but for our withdrawal from the 1980 Olympics over the invasion of Afghanistan. Remember the Marielito boatlifts from Cuba, which included thousands of formerly-jailed criminals shipped to our shores? Or how about his sudden signing of the Panama Canal treaties, that gave away U.S. control of this vital, strategic waterway on our own hemisphere? In 1979, Carter established full diplomatic ties with China, completing what Richard Nixon started, and severed formal relations with Taiwan. Corporations loved that, but it provided little incentive for human-rights improvements. Just ask the veterans of Tiananmen Square and China's multitude of slave laborers.

Carter also had the chutzpah to criticize Bush on his missile defense program and abandonment of the 1972 ABM Treaty. "I think it will re-escalate the arms race," and is a setback for the "prestige and respect due our country." That's strange, since our country was the world's Rodney Dangerfield during his presidency, and he attempted to negotiate foolish new arms treaties, like SALT II, all of which the Soviets laughingly cheated on.

Fortunately, Ronald Reagan, Bush's foreign and defense policy role model, repaired much of the damage with his peace through strength paradigm. But we are still paying, diplomatically and strategically, for Carter's failings. And his comments are that of a jealous has-been, envious that in six months President Bush has had more foreign policy backbone and success than Carter ever had in his four nightmarish years.

Thank G-d, Jimmy Carter was only a one-term president. Now, if only he could end his classless dissing campaign and shut up.

Or stick to something he actually knows something about. Like peanuts.
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Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2004, 05:19:51 AM »
October 20, 2004
Jimmy Carter is an Idiot

Jimmy Carter was commonly portrayed by editorial cartoonist's as having a big smile with huge teeth. This was a mistake, since those teeth obviously were smaller -- at least small enough to permit him to stick his foot, 'nay his lower leg up to the knee, into his mouth.

Carter was interviewed last night on Nerfball Hardball, and came up with this gem:
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you the question about—this is going to cause some trouble with people—but as an historian now and studying the Revolutionary War as it was fought out in the South in those last years of the War, insurgency against a powerful British force, do you see any parallels between the fighting that we did on our side and the fighting that is going on in Iraq today?

CARTER: Well, one parallel is that the Revolutionary War, more than any other war up until recently, has been the most bloody war we‘ve fought. I think another parallel is that in some ways the Revolutionary War could have been avoided. It was an unnecessary war.

Had the British Parliament been a little more sensitive to the colonial‘s really legitimate complaints and requests the war could have been avoided completely, and of course now we would have been a free country now as is Canada and India and Australia, having gotten our independence in a nonviolent way.

I think in many ways the British were very misled in going to war against America and in trying to enforce their will on people who were quite different from them at the time.
Other's have pointed out the error (and it's not even a small one) about the relative bloodiness of the Revolutionary War. But for the unconvinced, try the tables here. To be fair, Carter said "up until recently" to qualify his remarks. So let's see how that works out. How recent? WWII with over a million casualties and over 400,000 dead? WWII stands still today as the beginning of the "modern era" in many ways, although arguably that's changing. How about WWI? 300,000 casualties and over 100,000 dead there. But that's a stretch to call it recent. Ahh -- we get to the Civil War, with at least 500,000 dead on both sides. By no account can the Civil War be considered recent.

Oh, and the terribly brutal Revolutionary War? 4,435 battle deaths, and another 6,200 or so wounded. Is it any wonder that the Dems sat Michael Moore next to Carter at the convention?

But it just gets better. Carter is correct that the initial friction between the Colonies and the Crown was that the Crown was treating the Colonies like, well, colonies, and the Colonists didn't much appreciate it. But saying today, 230 to 240 years after the fact that a lack of sensitivity underly the problem is so an atrocious historical error. Sensitivity in the sense he means it is a decidedly 20th Century creation. He's placing an early 21st Century patina over the world in the late 18th Century without basis. I'm sure the Roman's weren't particularly sensitive either, but viewing their ultimate defeat at the hands of the various and oh so sensitive Goths, Visigoths, etc., it isn't particularly helpful, is it?

But the very best part is next -- the British were misled(!) into war, against a "quite different" people! Benjamin Franklin spent over a decade in England trying mightily to get the Crown and Parliament to acknowledge that the Colonists were not different, and that if only the Brits would treat them similarly things could be worked out. Carter's living in a dream world. But you know, I'd never really considered the point -- maybe he's on to something. I wait with baited breath for Carter to explain all of the other misled wars, recent and otherwise.

Need more proof?  I've got dozens.
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Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2004, 01:56:11 AM »
That was a good post--better than the one I had objection too. It was well thought out and the thought was understood, not necessarily totally argreed with.
About the heart--Well I identify with Carter, myownself being judged by me. A reading and study of James will lead one to the alter, much as it has President Carter and I. I think it will affect any Christian in the same manner. Who can stand in the presence of the Lord with a clean heart ? Not I, except for the Blood.
Judge yourownself, thru scripture, and leave everyone else to the Lord. If they do not repent then they do not belong to the Lord. I got a bunch of concerns of my own to deal with.
Again, I admired/admire Carter's ethehics and his morality. He was not a good President for a lot of the reasons you and I both have mentioned.
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Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2004, 05:01:57 AM »
Jimmy Carter was and still is an idiot. :D
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Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2004, 12:38:57 AM »
Change is hard on ya aint it.
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Offline Loader 3009

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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2004, 01:28:56 PM »
I don't mind change.  It's idiots that I don't tolerate well.
Don't believe everything you think.