Remington roling block

[Lightning Ross]

I have come into owning a remington roling block Short barrel sadle ring  flip up lader sight chamberd for 7mm bore is good  head space fine checked for cracks and weekneses by gun smith Was thinking of loading some lead cast bullets from the lyman book about 16-1800 ffps any comments Kinda nervous about factory rounds Do you think with the rifle being old would favor the heavy lead such as 160 -170 grainers the rifle is all complete and is mark with an Uraguay stamp

[savageT]

My honest opinion would be go to the black powder cartridge forum and inquire there.

[John Traveler]

Howdy do, Ross!

That 7x57mm Remington Rolling Block rifle you have is an interesting one.  Please be advised that old rifles in this particular model and caliber are famous/infamous for excessive headspace.  Even if the headspace checks correctly, that action allows excessive case stretch, and case life may not be good, even with moderate factory-level loads.  You are correct in avoiding full- power jacketed bullet loads.

As for using mid-range cast bullets, I can vouch that it should shoot very well.  I loaded for a 7x57 M95 Spanish Mauser using cast bullet loads, and they proved very accurate.  As I recall, the bullet was a 160 g gas checked Lee cast from linotype alloy.  I used Unique for light to mid-range loads and IMR 4895 for almost full velocity loads (appx 2000 fps) for casual plinking.

The twist rate is pretty fast, about 1-in-7" if I remember.  The original factory loads were 173 grain RN FMJ bullets at some 2400 fps.  Your cast bullets should stabilize well.

If your piece is in good shape, it should have some collector value.  Uruguayan rolling block short rifles are not too common.

Best of luck and good shooting!

[John Traveler]

Ross,

OOPS!  I forgot one very important thing:  Check your firing pin tip and make SURE that it is original to the breechblock, and that it has a small diameter tip (appx .0850").  

The old Number 1 (black powder) breech blocks used much larger diameter firing pins, and the Number 5 (smokeless powder) breechblocks use the much smaller firing pin.  You rifle would not be safe to shoot with the larger firing pin.  A punctured primer in the old actions is a very dangerous thing: the hammer can recock and blockback the cartridge case into your face!

The smaller firing pin and hole is needed to minimize primer extrusion when firing smokeless loads.  A common gunsmith fix was to rebush the old firing pin hole and install a smaller firing pin.

You might want to snap off a few primed cases (no powder) just to check for the amount of primer protrusion.  That will also give you an idea of how much action "stretch" you will get.

I load for and shoot several original Remington Rolling Block rifles and have a ball with them.

Be Safe and Good Shooting!

[Double D]

The old Rolling block is one of my favorite rifles.

In the 7mm model it does have a for poor case  life often confused as a Headspace problem.  It's a design problem.

After loosing all the first set of cases after just a couple of reloads for my 7mm RB to body separation, I made a phone call to the late Frank DeHaas for help.

 Mr. Dehaas, known to many as Mr. Single-shot told me that there was no fix for the problem but it was easy to minimize the problem. He explained that the RB action was a little to springy for the 7mm. This spring wasn't straight back, but rotational around the axis of the block.  Because of this the spring at the top of the chamber was greater than at the bottom. The part of the case that was on top at firing was stretched more than the bottom. This stretch weakened the case. leading to early separation.

Mr. DeHaas said first don't full length resize until you can't rechamber. Resize only enough to hold the bullet.  Be sure you don't touch the shoulder and push it back. When you can't chamber a round resize only enough to chamber, don't full length resize.

Second, index the rounds when you load them.  Do this by taking a file and cutting a notch in the rim.  When you load the round in the chamber orient the notch to the same position everytime, such as 12 O'clock. When I build single shots I always make a mark at 12 o'clock above the chamber for this purpose.  

I did what Mr. De Haas told me and my case life double. When cases did fail by body separation, they always failed on top.

Shot that RB and have fun.

[John Traveler]

Hi Double D!

Looks like we share the same "affliction":  a liking for Remington Rolling Blocks!

I've read Mr. De Haas's book on single shot rifles and several of his articles on the RRB.  That was good advice you relayed on minimizing case stretch when reloading for smokeless bottleneck cartridges.

Low pressure straight-wall cartridges don't seem to suffer as much in the case head separation department.

Have you much experience on reloading for the .43 Spanish, .43 Egyptian, .50-45 carbine, and other military rounds of the late 1800's?  Please share your experiences here.  What are your favorite loads?

I started collecting relic RRB's after I encountered a Canadian collector that had over twenty of them!  His pieces included Springfield Armory production pieces for the US Army and Navy.

[Double D]

Some years ago. I was going to say a short while back but i realized it was in 1983.  I got my hands on a bunch of 43 Eqyptians, two complete unaltered 7mm 1910's, and a customized  7mm and some 1910 actions only. I got them cheap. The Egyptians were sand blasted to death.  I bought some 18 and 20 inch bbl blank 45 acp and some Numrich Rolling block stock and barrel sets.  I built a bunch of 45 long colt carbines and put the Numrich kits together.  I also built with the 1910 actions heavy bbl "buffalo guns in 45/70. One for Bill Hahn of "End of Trail"  cowboy shooting fame.  I built his wife Dorothy one of the 45 colts.  The Unalterd 1910's where in pristine condition and got snapped up by collectors.  The Custom 7mm I used for hunitng for several years and killed deer an antelope.

Those rifles helped me get through college and slow time after words. I wish I had kept one of the 45 colts as they were the most fun.

I only have one right now. It's one I have been build from the last 1910 action that I had. It has a 34 inch Montana Rifle Barrel Co. tapered octagon bbl. This company has been out of bussines since the mid 80's and made mostly muzzleoader bbls.  I have it partially stocked.  I recut the reciever ring octagon to. I have been working on it for about 10 years and someday I will finish it.

Right now I am in my martini phase, but I will always have a rolling block. I always lusted for a Argentine.

[John Traveler]

Ah, LUST is the right word after all!

The few pristine Danish and Argentine rolling blocks I've seen got me to thinking how much I could get for my children in a trade....
The workmanship and attention to detail on those things is truly a thing  to behold!

I enjoyed reading your post about the .45 Colt carbines and rebarrelling work.  Care to describe how you recut the receiver ring to octagon shape?  I've done some head scratching over that one and wondered if the standard rounded receiver had enough stock on it to reshape to octagonal form.  I wonder if the original factory sporters were simply recut or originally forged in octagon?

Please describe your rebarrelling work as well.  Did you use De Haas's barrel bushing method to adapt smaller diameter barrels to the RRB action?

I lucked onto two original .50-45 Navy carbine barrels last summer and now have them fitted on Spanish actions.

Thanks in advance for any info you can offer!  Good chatting with you!

[Lightning Ross]

thanks for the info i printed it to save in my file cabenet it is the most info I have goten so far Most from people from gun shows tell me they are common and not worth much ask if they could show me one since everyone has one no one could go figure thanks again

[John Traveler]

Ross,

When on a business trip to Canada, that RRB collector with the 20 rifles shared an interesting story.  Taken with a large grain of salt, here is how it was described:

The Remington Arms Company made it's fame and fortune on the RRB design.  Some TWO million military and sporting rifles (US and foreign license production) were made. during the period after the American civil war to just after WWI.  Post WWII imports of surplus rolling block rifles was in the hundreds of thousands!

According to these Canadian guys, in the 1960's some surplus arms dealer on the East Coast called Ye Olde Hunter or something like that, used THOUSANDS of RRB barrels and barreled actions as reinforcing steel for a parking lot and large wall around the HUGE warehouse property.  There might be some credence to this story because I've seen old american Rifleman ads showing RRB surplus sold by the pound!  Larger quantities were discounted even more!

Apparently much of that Spanish, Egyptian, and military whatever stuff was so bad that only some of the actions and parts were useable.

The last three RRB rifles I bought were allegedly from some old man living in the American Southwest desert.  The .43 Spanish RRB rifles were incredibly beat up, rusted, oil-soaked, and then, get this:  PAINTED with black paint!!!
Two of the breech blocks were tack-welded shut.  After cleanup the best one was an unmodified one with pristine bore and military cartouches on the stock!!!

A couple weeks ago I found another RRB carbine fitted with a surplus M1903 barrel and sights and chambered for .30-40 Krag!  The work and the remaining finish indicated at least two decades of hard use.

Yes, there must be plenty of the old war horses around, but WHERE are they now??

[Double D]

Cutting the octagon on the receiver is very highly technical work and requires high level mathamatical computations and advanced engineering skills, not!

With receiver installed grab the octagon barrel by the flats in the milling machine vice.  Cut the top flat.  The first cut will be a little tough until you get through the case hardening. Cut the flat to depth. I cut within .100 of bbl flat.  Turn the bbl in the vise and cut the two 45 degree flats on each side. Turn the bbl for the side flats.  These flats are only cut to half the width of the top and side flats.  You should have a step out to the side of the receiver walls.  I draw filed the cutter marks out of the flats.  On the back of the flats by the block I filed them slightly rounded like you see on the muzzle of a octagon bbl.  

I am thinking about thinning the sidewalls just slightly.  But that will have to wait until I can get access to a milling machine again.

I used the 1910 action with the big hump receiver rings.  I haven't tried it on the 1898 model.  The earlier military models like the eqyptians had smaller receivers much like the commercial receivers, and looked just fine as is.

I have had a a Danish rolling bock, but that was before I was into heavy duty reloading.  Just shot 45/70 in it like everyone use to do.  Swelled the case pretty good.

Yes I have used DeHaas's bushing method,  I put a .223 Remington take off bbl from a Ruger number 3  on Greener Martini Shotgun action while testing a rimless extractor design I made. (didn't work)  I have pulled and rebarreled any number of barrels and found  this bushing method. Works good. The rifle shot like a dream, but had to have a ramrod extractor.

I have seen RB marked 30 GOVT from the factory. That is the Krag round.

[Mikey]

You mentioned that the Montana Rifle Company was/is out of business.  Did you know that The Montana Rifleman is in business.  They make and install barrels in an incredible array of calibers.  They could probably make you a barrel to order in the caliber of your choice, up to 32" in length for less than you might imagine.  I don't know if tyeh have any affiliation to the company you mentioned but the names are close enough to make me wonder.  

Mikey.

[Double D]

Oh yeah I know the Montana Rifleman, been in their shop in Kalispell a bunch of times.  Never used one of their barrels but would.  Good people and a nice shop.

Related to Montana Barrel Company, might be, might not be, never asked.  Montana Barrel got bought up by Bauska Arms.

[John Traveler]

Double D,

What is the hottest cartridge you have ever chambered a Remington Rolling block action to?  Ever had any problems with the barrel bushing medthod holding up?

Curious John

[Double D]

7x57.  Stay away for hot stuff.  Isn't worth effort.  Hot 45/70 loads in the RB will separate cases just like the 7MM

That barrel bushing method works good.  I thread everything, never solder.

I always loctite the bushing to the barrel.  Had one stuck in the action and it took me two years to get it out.