Author Topic: paper patching 375H&H  (Read 1747 times)

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Offline carpediem

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paper patching 375H&H
« on: December 19, 2004, 10:27:47 AM »
Anybody out there ever paper patch a bullet for use in a 375 H&H?

Could I use my 250 grain mold or do I need to buy a special mold for paper patched bullets?

If I use my 250 grain mold sized in .378 how do I swage the diameter down to take the paper?

Do I have to use pure lead or can I use wheel weights?

How well do paper patched bullets feed through a box magazine?  Does the paper rip while in the magazine?

I have read Paul Mathew's book on the paper patch and find it very interesting.  I would like to take the next step and build a hunting load with paper patched, 375 H&H bullets.

Thank you in advance for your assistance and advice.

Kindest regard and Merry Christmas,

Max
Carpediem

Offline Cat Whisperer

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paper patching 375H&H
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2004, 12:36:53 PM »
carpediem -

We're at about the same stage.  I've read Paul Matthews book "The paper patch" and have a couple of moulds for the .375 H&H or Win.

I've got the Ruger #1 in .375 H&H.  

From what Matthews writes -  the critical issue is that the diameter of the boolet be very close to bore diameter for best accuracy.

That means for me that I've got to size down the boolets that I have - insted of sizing for .001 to .002 above groove diameter to right at bore diameter.  

Time to dig out the calipers and inventory the sizers.

Which 250 gr. mould do you have?  I've got the Lyman .375449 (264gr FNGC) and an NEI PP mould of 290gr.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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paper patching 375H&H
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2004, 02:19:14 PM »
Carpediem -

Thanks again for posting this.  It's gotten me motivated to do some serious loading.  

Looked through the inventory of rifles and moulds:

Paper Patch .375 diameter

Rifles:
1. .375 H&H Ruger #1:  Bore/groove diameters:   .365/.377”

2. .375 Win Ruger #3: Bore/groove diameters:   .365/.375”

3. .375 Winchester 94: Bore/groove diameters:   .365/.377”

Boolets:
1. Lyman #378449
  a. Weight: (hard cast) 272gr
  b. Diameter: .378” as cast

2. NEI
  a. Weight: (soft cast) 322gr
  b. Diameter: .364” as cast

When I looked through the sizers the only ones I could find were .375 and .378 for sizing the finished boolet.  Only went up to .360 for the boolet - need .364 or so for the bore diameters I've got.

What next?   Oh, yea, LOADS -
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline 45 2.1

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paper patching 375H&H
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2004, 02:51:23 PM »
Guys-
 Here is what you need to know to patch any size paper patch bullet for smokeless powder.
 
 You notice that most rifles and handguns have a difference between bore and groove of about .008". You need to pick a patch paper that will increase the bullet diameter by that much. This amounts to paper that is about .002" thick up to .0025". That is 9 lb. onionskin. Measure with a micrometer any paper before you buy. Good results depend on this. Onionskin is more difficult to find and I have been told they don't make it anymore, that is false, you need to hunt until you find it. DO NOT buy the erasable kind, it will not wet so you can roll it on the bullet and stay. The bullet can be about any bullet (some do not fit right) you use for the caliber, you will need to size it to bore diameter or up to barrel throat diameter minus .008" (this is 4 times the thickness of the paper). You do not want the patched slug over throat diameter, preferably about .001" less. More and the patch will tear. Bullet alloy is important also. The bigbores should use pure lead up to 30:1 alloy and no harder. I hunt with mine and do not load but about 1500 fps in the bigbores and up to 1800 fps in 25 to 30 caliber. If you want to go faster you will need a stiffer alloy. Size those soft bullets in a made to order size LEE push thru sizer. Soft bullets WILL deform if sized down alot in a Lyman/RCBS die. Lube the bullets with case lube before or they will be lopsided. Clean it off afterwards. Slug your rifle throat and find the distance from the bottom of the case neck to the full rifling depth in the throat, this is your patched part of the bullet, this only applies to bottle necked cases, straight cases use a bullet that is patched over the ogive slightly. Paul Mathews has several books detailing how to find patch length and configuration, read them and follow his advice! I use spit to wet the patch also. Now you have a patched bullet, you need to lube the patch. I use Pauls patch lube also, I think its 55% vaseline and 45% beeswax, a cup of soup bowl will last forever. Just rub it into the patch on the bearing surface only with your fingers well and your bullet is done. To load you need to necksize your brass so that the inside neck diameter is about .002" under the patched diameter of your bullet. Chamfer the brass so it is very smooth so your finger nail does not catch on any part of it. Flare the case mouth so you can seat the patched bullet smoothly without tearing the patch or it seating hard. If you picked the right bullet, you can crimp lightly into the top lube groove. In patching conventional bullets, the patch will shrink into the lube grooves. These patched slugs do not have much of a bullet pull and need a moderate crimp to help powder ignition. When seated this way, the front band should be marked by the throat and leave a black impression where it touches, about 50% to 70% is normal for me. You need for the patched slug to be in the throat so it won't jump to the rifleing. These usually go thru lever actions very well. If you have problems with patch tearing, you will have to debur the offending part on the rifle. I do not size after patching, I have found a few problems in some calibers doing this. Patch it to the right size to begin with. If you patch smooth slugs as most dedicated paper patch molds put out, you will need to role the bullet with a file to put so roughness on it for the patch to hold onto. For most of my patching, I use SR 4759 in standard Lyman book loads. I have tested the pure lead patched bullets from spitting distance to 300 yards. Close will turn a slug inside out and at 300 yards they expand to 2 calibers minmum. Patched this way, the accuracy is more than you would believe if I told you. Enjoy

Offline Cat Whisperer

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paper patching 375H&H
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2004, 03:23:48 PM »
45 2.1  -

Thanks for the info!  Prompt and extensive.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
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Offline Black Jaque Janaviac

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paper patching 375H&H
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2004, 06:18:53 AM »
Quote
You need for the patched slug to be in the throat so it won't jump to the rifleing. These usually go thru lever actions very well.


Hmmm.  Perhaps this is the next step I need to tackle.  I've got a conundrum though.  If I seat the bullet out to contact the throat, the OAL may end up too long to function in my M92 lever action.  I know for a fact that it will chamber cartridges that are too long for the action.

There's something in the way the cartridge sits on the lifter, pitched to enter the breach.  If it's too long, the front of the bullet contacts the top of the chamber before the rim gets to the "window" in the guides.
Black Jaque Janaviac - Dat's who!

Hawken - the gun that made the west wild!

Offline 45 2.1

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paper patching 375H&H
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2004, 02:16:15 PM »
If you have a cast bullet that works good for you now, cast some out of pure lead and size them to bore diameter, then patch them with two wraps of onionskin so that the patch is past the front band down the ogive somewhat (about 2 or 3 widths of the front band past the front band). Seat to the crimp groove and see if it feeds. If it does and it engraves, crimp lightly in the crimp groove and shoot some. I usually do this for the longer lever action rifle cartridges and it works well for me.