I was told.......

[billdncn]

To hold off on getting a Sundberg taper barrel for my Sako by a poster on another web site. He says that this barrel is not a Hunting rifle contour nor a straight taper which he apparently quoted from the rule book. He also says that the committee is voting Jan. 5th on this ruling.

Is this true or HOGWASH?

[davei]

to the best of my knowledge there is no definition of a "hunting rifle contour" nor, do i believe, is a hunting rifle contour mentioned in the rules.  the rules say "tapered"  the sundberg in 24" is tapered from .900" to .700"  Clearly tapered, clearly meeting the intent of the rules.  There are quite a few of them out there with far more shilens and the like that have a similar taper.  I'll be stunned if the rules committee actually screws things up when they finally have a set of rules that make sense.  actually...  i won't be stunned at all.  what i will do, however, is send them a bill for the rifle i just built that meets both the letter and spirit of the current rule set.
dave imas

[shootingpaul]

the rule says "taperred" barrel, so any barrel that has a tapper to it is legal (ofcourse not longer than 26 inches).  I agree with Dave, although I am way... way better looking shooter, I must give him a credit on the rules knowledge.

[nomad]

Believe it or not, there are changes in the wind -- again -- but, according to what I've heard from GC the changes are positive.

The rewording (which, as I hear it, has now cleared the sil com, the comp com and has only to get past the board) will allow any tapered bbl that makes weight. The only restricted styles will be bull bbls.

If I were looking to spend the sheckels for a new bbl, I'd wait another few weeks to be sure, but AFAIK the sundberg taper will pass; as will bbls marked as 'Varmint' bbls...as long as they taper. (The taper must be toward the muzzle.)

[flintski]

I'm really new to this 22 rifle silhouette shooting and I have a 10-22 with a bull barrel, you know the funny looking twist barrel.  Is the barrel configuration good for 22 hunter class?

Like I said I'm new, real new, but hope to shoot 22 thisd spring/summer.

flint

[billdncn]

Thanks to all. I feel a lot safer about  this replacement barrel know. This is why I came here to ask such a question. I was told, quote/unquote.......

"I would hold off on the Lilja until the silhouette committee rules on the barrel taper for smallbore hunter in Jan 05. As I understand the present wording, hunter barrels must either have a hunting contour, or straight taper from receiver to the muzzle. The sundberg will not meet either category, since it is straight for about 3 inches before tapering."  

I don't know if he's saying it is not legal or, may not be legal. I'm now waiting his reply. I misread and thought he said Jan. 5th. He said Jan 05. Sorry.

flinski
Bull barrels are not allowed in smallbore hunting rifle but are in smallbore rifle (The unlimited class, so to speak)

[dave imas]

all you techno geeks out there help me out...  aren't most barrels straight at the breech for a couple of inches before they taper?  kind of have to be because of the need for a chamber?
dave

[K2]

Seems it would be easier to just say any gun that fits into a box of a given dimension with barrel length of "x" or less, a trigger pull of "y" or more, with a total weight of "z" or less is a legal "Hunter" rifle.  Why all the handringing over the taper vs bull etc. They are all custom built.  If you want "magazine fed" throw that in for good measure or leave it out.  Hunter is just a name but really has no real meaning in the sport other than a lighter weight gun than standard.  One or two lines of rules on equipment is plenty once you allow custom work.  

Thanks to all. I feel a lot safer about  this replacement barrel know. This is why I came here to ask such a question. I was told, quote/unquote.......

"I would hold off on the Lilja until the silhouette committee rules on the barrel taper for smallbore hunter in Jan 05. As I understand the present wording, hunter barrels must either have a hunting contour, or straight taper from receiver to the muzzle. The sundberg will not meet either category, since it is straight for about 3 inches before tapering."  

I don't know if he's saying it is not legal or, may not be legal. I'm now waiting his reply. I misread and thought he said Jan. 5th. He said Jan 05. Sorry.

flinski
Bull barrels are not allowed in smallbore hunting rifle but are in smallbore rifle (The unlimited class, so to speak)

[Gringo Grizzly]

Dave,

As several of you know, I don't like the hunter rifle rule changes implemented a few years ago.
However, I'm with you on this one since I just built a rifle conforming - and it wasn't cheap!

Gringo

[billdncn]

received a reply to my question "is not, or may not, be legal?" and was told by "still learning"

"Legal now, but not under the proposed wording as it now reads (straight taper from chamber to muzzle)."

I guess I should wait and see what comes of this, if anything. I would hate to build a rifle for both classes and to find I can only  use it in one. I guess if that were the case I could just look for a Jewel trigger, and maybe a custom stock, and have a pretty competitive heavy gun.  

I don't know who this person is ("still learning") or how they have knowledge of the proposed rules, and rather to believe them or not

[still_learning]

I suppose my reply to billdncn on the sako board at rimfirecentral got things started.  And yes, it is my understanding that the rule being proposed will change the hunter taper.  I asked the NRA Silhouette Dept. a few months ago about shooting my Kimber Varmint Classic in hunter rifle, given the current rules.  I was put on hold until the November meeting, and was told in a follow up that "The Silhouette Committee changed rule 3.1.1 (e) to read as follows:

Rule 3.1.1 (e): "Barrel: The only type of barrel that can be used in the
Hunting class is a hunting style contoured barrel that tapers from chamber
to muzzle.  Bull barrels are not permitted.  A factory tuner that does not
act as a muzzle brake is permitted.  Maximum barrel length is 26 inches,
including tuner."

If this rule is approved as written, January 10, 2005 will be the effective
date."

And yes, the Kimber is legal under this interpretation, since it tapers from chamber to muzzle.  My Lilja, however, is straight for the first 3 inches before tapering, so I wrote Lilja, he replied "So, are you saying the new rule would not allow for any straight cylinder section in front of the receiver?  If so, that is a problem.  Most custom barrel makers hold the barrel on that diameter in a chuck while the rest of the barrel is turned.  We like to have a minimum of 2.5" of straight section here.  Any shorter and we can't hold on to it.

All I'm sayin is that I would wait until Jan before buying an aftermarket hunter barrel, but then I'm not a professional and your milage may vary.  Later
Michael

[billdncn]

I don't understand. The taper on my Finnfire's factory barrel doesn't start until approx. 1/2" or so in front of the receiver and approx. 2.250" from the chamber mouth. Would it then not conform?

[still_learning]

That's the point though.  You asked about buying a Lilja sundberg barrel for hunter.  Got one.  Love it.  However, I don't know if it's legal ifor hunter in 05 until the new rules are passed in Jan.,05.  The lilja will probably be legal, as it is now; but as NOMAD put it, "I'd wait another few weeks to be sure."

[nomad]

I think we're trying to run before the snap on this one.
AFAIK, the 'new' rule only makes bbl selection simpler in that it is designed to allow 'varmint' bbls that are NOT bull bbls.

A problem has been that bbls marked 'varmint' have been excluded while nearly identical custom bbls -- that are unmarked -- have been allowed. Under this interpretation, anything that makes weight, doesn't exceed 26" and tapers toward the muzzle will pass.

I don't read it as prohibiting a 'normal' cylindrical chamber section and I don't think it was meant to be taken that way. At any match where I'm running tech that won't happen. Now if someone shows up with a 25" cylindrical 'chamber' section and a 1" tapered 'bbl', I'd have a problem with it...

[K2]

Are there any advantages of a bull barrel over a custom tapered barrel?  With weight being a factor it seems as though one would need a shorter bull barrel to be able to make weight anyway giving up some velocity in the bargain.  Is this much concern over very little?

I think we're trying to run before the snap on this one.
AFAIK, the 'new' rule only makes bbl selection simpler in that it is designed to allow 'varmint' bbls that are NOT bull bbls.

A problem has been that bbls marked 'varmint' have been excluded while nearly identical custom bbls -- that are unmarked -- have been allowed. Under this interpretation, anything that makes weight, doesn't exceed 26" and tapers toward the muzzle will pass.

I don't read it as prohibiting a 'normal' cylindrical chamber section and I don't think it was meant to be taken that way. At any match where I'm running tech that won't happen. Now if someone shows up with a 25" cylindrical 'chamber' section and a 1" tapered 'bbl', I'd have a problem with it...

[tirador]

Nomad, Dave and rest of the crew, I called Jack Hill to tell him about the concerns some of us have regarding the hunting barrel rule change.  He told me that there is basically no change to the rule and that it had been done to better explain the rule, which does not permit the use of straight barrels or bull barrels.

He told me that the part of the rule change that will state, “Contoured barrel that tapers from chamber to muzzle” WILL NOT EXCLUDE any barrels currently used in hunting rifle competition and that it is a given that custom barrels will have 2.5 to 3 inches of cylindrical or straight barrel at the chamber’s end.

And last, that the wording on the rule ”A factory tuner that does not act as a muzzle brake is permitted” applies only to HP Hunting rifles (tuners on smallbore hunting rifles were outlawed last year).

I hope this helps some of you that are had questions regarding the Lilja barrel with the Sundberg contour, I own two of them so I have a vested interest on this issue.

[billdncn]

tirador, and all who replied;
I do feel better now and I think I'm going to order the lilja. I do hate having to wait 3 months or so though. I've been searching all over the web for a 24" Sundberg, but have had no luck at all. I guess I could order a straight brl. and have my riflesmith turn it down for me.

Does anyone have or know where I can find a 24" Sundberg for sale?

once again thanks, Bill

[Arizona Jake]

Bill:

Dan Lilja will charge you the same price whether you order a "std." 21 inch Sundberg tapered barrel for your Finnfire, or a 24 incher. I don't think you will get a faster lead time by ordering a straight contour barrel, so have some patience and save some bucks.

I ordered a 22 inch Sundberg taper barrel from Dan last year and it was well worth the wait. Just about anyone who owns a Lilja barrel will tell you the same thing. Best of luck,  :cb2: