Handgun ammo for deer in Illinois

[S.B.]

Friday last week a buddy and I hunted deer with handguns. A young CPO approached me while I was on stand and checked my permit and back tag. He asked if I were hunting with a .357 magnum and I replied no it's a .44 magnum. He asked if I used  factory ammo, and I replied no it's handloads. He informed me that I could only hunt with a handgun with factory ammo for deer. He didn't fine me or ask me to leave but, warned me not to hunt with handloads again. I went home and reread the codes for ammo and emailed the DNR and asked them to give me a definate answer to this question. This is their reply:
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Mr. xxxxxxx:

Illinois regulations specify that legal ammunition for a centerfire
handgun must be available as a factory load; however, they do not
require the use of a factory load.  As a result, ammunition would not be
legal if it were only available as a wildcat load and there was no
factory source that would meet minimum requirements.
The bottom line:  if there are factory loads available that meet
minimum standards (i.e., 30 cal or larger, muzzle energy of at least 500
ft. lbs., and in the case of bottleneck cartridges a case length not
greater than 1.4 inches),  it is legal ammunition whether a factory load
or a reload.
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But, not having an answer by Sunday morning (the weekend) or factory ammo, or my gun sighted for factory ammo, even if I did have it, I stayed home, the last day of the season for handguns!

[Dusty Miller]

Yet one instance of an LEO not knowing the very laws he is supposed to be inforcing!

[S.B.]

The letter I got back from DNR was 100% on the money for the question that I asked. And I might add it covered it more thoughly than the book you speak of. By the way, the last hunter safety course I taught I was told (by DNR) the book is incorrect on many of the pages?

[S.B.]

Yet one instance of an LEO not knowing the very laws he is supposed to be inforcing!

Dusty, I can't fault the CPO(laws and rules are very vaguely written), he didn't make me leave or fine me or take my gun or truck, or jail me. Just warned me to cease and disist. I felt lucky not to spend the rest of the weekend in the county jail. CPO's in Illinois have more police powers than any other law enforcement group.

[Gregory]

SB

I would have very politely disagreed with him and would have offered to walk back to my truck to read the regulations along with him (I keep a copy of the game laws in my truck).  I've read them enough to have memorized them.  It only has to be available as a factory round.
Why was he molesting your hunt while on stand in the first place?  I could see checking licenses when you left the woods but not while on stand!

[S.B.]

This isn't the first time I've been checked while hunting. As I said, he was not rude or demanding. I did tell the officer that I disagreed with his thoughts but, I've found in my experience with LE that it's far best to not argue with them. Can you imagine what could of happened if I'd been irate with him, probably lost my pistol maybe my truck and had to call my wife to bail me out of county lockup and perhaps lost all hunting rights for a life time, even if nothing legal came of it. Wouldn't be the first case of big problems in Illinois. I called his area headquarters and offered to send them a copy of the email I received and they informed me that the CPO's would be notified of this contact. When we go back up this weekend for muzzleloader season, I'll take a copy and give to the rangers on duty.

[Glanceblamm]

Did you also notice that the reg-season permit said no hardcast ammo while the late winter antlerless (original handgun only) says nothing about this?
Bottom line IMO is that I am happy to have the opportunity for a handgun hunt.

[Van/TX]

If a man has a gun and a badge you say "Yes Sir".  Seems to work.  You can work out the other stuff by correspondence :wink: ....Van

[S.B.]

Did you also notice that the reg-season permit said no hardcast ammo while the late winter antlerless (original handgun only) says nothing about this?
Bottom line IMO is that I am happy to have the opportunity for a handgun hunt.

Yes but, my loads were with 240 gr. Hornady XTP's. That wasn't an issue in this episode.

[Glanceblamm]

S.B. Wrote:

Yes but, my loads were with 240 gr. Hornady XTP's. That wasn't an issue in this episode.

This is true and I only mentioned it as an inconsistancy. Perhaps the DNR people are not on the same page?
I also used handloads but had to eliminate the accurate, hard hitting, cast bullet loads that I had invested alot of time in because they want expansion in one season but not in another. Go figure :roll:
I did go into the field with confidence in my handloads as I precieved it to be legal as it is avalible as a factory round.

[S.B.]

glanceblamm, inconsistancy is an understatement. I agree with you, I'm glad to have the opportunity to use my handgun to hunt deer. Used to use my pistol in Mo. when my inlaws lived down there and had a ball. Have yet to take a deer in my home state of Illinois with one. Maybe this issue will prevent others from having the same problems later on. Hope so, anyway. Maybe muzzleloader season will be calmer and productive?

[STL Cardinal Fan]

I live in Illinois and love to hunt also. This is why I have chosen to respond to this issue.

First of all, the game warden needed to use common sense. No game warden  needs to go and meet a hunter at "his" stand during deer season. Illinois only offers us hunters a limited time to deer hunt in the first place. We do not need a game warden taking valuable time away from us.

I for one, spend over $50 in gas when I go south for my deer hunt. I spend money for lodging, food also. The last thing I want is some game warden or a slob hunter coming in my area and ruining my hunt.

Game wardens have a job to do, but the job also demands them to use common sense.

The second point I want to make, is that the game warden should know the laws he or she is to enforce. I understand one can't memorize every law, but he or she should know the fundamental ones. Speaking of a fundamental law, he should have known that reloads are legal under  certain criteria. This is like us hunters knowing we have to have a plug in our shotguns. It is common sense.

If I were you, I would contact the DNR back and politely explain your situation in full and ask for a refund. That game warden ruined your hunt and they at least owe you for the cost of your tag(s).

Are game wardens human, one might ask. The answer is simple, yes. Yes, they make mistakes like all of us. Last I knew though, there is usually consequences when one makes a bad decision.

Simply put, you have every right to be upset. I guess what would irk me the most, is the game warden coming to your stand. If he met you at your vehicle after a hunt, then one can view this some what differently.

I have said for years that the Illinois DNR needs to build a working relationship with hunters. The DNR needs to have seminars every year and explain the new laws and then open the floor up for a question/answer session. By having such seminars, a lot of "common sense" problems could be prevented.

In closing, I would have to agree with Gregory on this issue. You should have walked the game warden back to your vehicle and show him the law.  Then I would have proceeded to inform his superiors of his mistake and how he ruined your hunting. Yes, he did ruin your hunting! Keep hunting, don't let a "common sense" mistake from enjoying the great outdoors! Best of wishes in your future hunts!

[S.B.]

I got an email from the DNR guy on what is done when new rules are pending.

Mr. xxxxxxx,
Where is the reference to the use of cast bullets?  I'll look into it.

The best way to comment on language in the regulations is to send a
letter to our Legal Department when a rule has been filed for public
review ("first notice").  This typically happens once each year, and
should happen for several of the deer rules within the next couple of
months.  Typically IDNR does a news release announcing this, although
the news media may not pick up on it.  However, they are always posted
on our web site under "Proposed Administrative Rules".


Paul Shelton, Manager
Forest Wildlife Program
Illinois Department of Natural Resources
217-782-6384

So if anyone has comments on the current or pending rule changes this is suppose to be the way to voice our opinions. I certainly will keep a look out for this and give my input. Hope everyone here who is affected will do the same?

[Glanceblamm]

S.B.
I was (and am) truly sorry that your hunt was ruined. I think I would have left also. Would have burned my $$. And for what? so an officers ego could be satisfied?
I thought that ST Louis Card Fan's post was very well written as he nicely touched on curtesy and common sence. Would be nice to see this post on the DNR offices bulletin boards.