Author Topic: Hornady 60 gr V-Max .224" (Read 2769 times)

Paul5388 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 07, 2004, 12:34:19 PM »

Well, here's 27.0 gr of Varget, CCI 400 in LC brass at 2.5" OAL.

At 100 yards, it's 1.75" counting the shot marked #1, which was out of a cold clean barrel. The other 4 shots measure .825"

Fred M · « **Reply #31 on:** December 07, 2004, 01:13:06 PM »

Paul that looks good. Even the fouling shot is not bad. Try to move the bullets to the lands if they are long enough.
With the Varget powder your pressure will still be quite low.

Your group has some vertical component 2+2 and so has the fouler???
With more pressure this could get more. I suspect a slight movement in the latch?

Paul5388 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 07, 2004, 01:35:27 PM »

Fred,

I have had quite a bit of trouble with vertical stringing with this barrel and the .357 barrel, so it may be more heat related than anything. This synthetic forearm hasn't been completely floated and the heat build up may be putting pressure on the barrel.

I guess I could try again with a wood 12 gauge forearm that I'm pretty sure will float. Might look a little odd with a synthetic stock, but it might help isolate the problem.

JPH45 · « **Reply #33 on:** December 07, 2004, 03:00:08 PM »

Quote from: Ditchdigger

Quote from: Fred M
Fred all of my micro groove barrells on my 444 marlin,30 30 and every thing that says micro groove on it has 12 grooves in it. All are normal depth also.

Digger, My 44 barrel has 12 lands and grooves, my 357 barrel has 8 and my 30-30 barrel has 6. I woud be surprised if the lands were any taller than .002". The bore rider on My lee 180 bullet falls into the bore, at .300. I sent the mold back to Lee, that diameter was originally .296! DJ had sent me some Lyman 170's, the bore rider was .305, it could be pushed in the muzzle and barely engraved.

My 45-70 barrel has 8 land and grooves, the grooves being about 1/3 wider than the lands. Lands apper to be .002-.003 in height.

Fred M · « **Reply #34 on:** December 07, 2004, 03:49:57 PM »

JPH45
25-06 has 6 grooves .100 wide. Lands are .048 wide and .oo2 high. bore is .2582 to 2585. Throat .259. Every thing is way to big.

I thought a .002" groove was a micro groove. I gues that is not the case.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #35 on:** December 11, 2004, 03:22:22 PM »

I managed to run some of the 60 gr V-Max through the chrony today using 27.0 gr Varget with CCI 400 and LC 01 brass.
3041 fps
2994 fps
3004 fps
2995 fps
3012 fps
3009 fps average at 15'
3029 fps corrected to MV
By using Varget, I suppose the 45 degree temperature didn't have much affect on the velocity. However, I did notice the POI was a couple of inches lower than the other day.

Longcruise · « **Reply #36 on:** December 12, 2004, 08:17:45 AM »

Quote

I have had quite a bit of trouble with vertical stringing with this barrel and the .357 barrel

I'm afraid that's the curse of most breakaction single shot rifles. I had the same problem with a 223 TCR83 until I learned to hold it consistently. You will see it suggested to rest the rifle on the hinge pin and that's good advice IMO. Stringing in these guns is a result of putting inconsistent vertical pressure on the forearm and that effect is lessened by supporting on the hinge pin. When shooting off the bags with mine I use the lessons learned with my TCR and never allow any pressure on the forend to exceed the weight of the rifle itself. That gives you consistency and it is acheeved by resting the toe of the rifle on a bunny bag or sandbag under your armpit and pressing the rifle into your shoulder with your left hand by pushing straight back on the pistol grip of the stock. You will get even more consistency if you do your trigger pull by squeezing it between your thumb and trigger finger with the trigger finger on the trigger and the thumb behind the triggerguard.

All of the above is of course pointless when it comes to real world shooting in the field. When I sight my handi rifles for field shooting I shoot from the bench usisng a conventional hold as though shooting offhand with no support under the butt and with the forearm supported in my hand and the hand laying lightly on the bag. Group sizes grow a bit but the poi of your range sight settings will pretty much match your field shooting positions. . . . . unless of course you use your sling as a shooting aid and subsequently torque the gun out of shape :grin: I like to shoot with cross sticks and have found that with any handgun or rifle you are better off using the crosssticks to support your hand with the hand holding the forearm or in the case of a handgun to rest the wrist on the crosssticks.

Fred M · « **Reply #37 on:** December 12, 2004, 11:41:50 AM »

Longcruise.
You are right in saying that a consistent hold when shooting off bags is very important particulary with a Handi. Setting the Handy on the hinge pin however is not a cure for the problem of vertical stringing. It does perhaps alleviate or reduce some of the stringing. In my write up I have explained why that is so.

However a consistent hold is important to any rifle when shooting from a bench with bag supports when testing ammo for accuracy or shooting high scores in HBR.

I have proofed to my own satisfaction that the problem lies with the latch seat and the weak latch compression spring. I can shoot that 25-06 from any position on the forearm without vertical stringing since I fixed the two items.

With the new stronger dual latch spring there is no more movement in the latch. Also H&R told me the rifle needs no stronger springs, I guess they know better?. If the the latch seat machining was better executed this may be true. This is also true if you expect no more than a 2"- 3" groups. In that case we are beating a dead horse.

The two surfaces of the latch and the latch seat do not make a compatable connection, so I created one. Besides since I fixed the latch I had no load pop open the action, which it did frequently before. The rifle now shoots consistent 1-1/4" or less groups without any stringing.

When I shoot the the 25-06 from the bench I push down on the forearm and against one side of the front rest bag because the bag is desgned for a 2" wide forearm. This contradicts the statement of extra weight on the forarm. Of course I do this the same for each shot, without ill effects.

I am not sure where this statement comes from but it could be from the sticking of the rifle against the bag hence we use baby powder on the bags so the gun can slide on the bag in free recoil or held against the shoulder, in both events the rifle will slide back. The rifle is then positioned at the same location against the forearm stop on the front rest for the next shot.
.

Longcruise · « **Reply #38 on:** December 13, 2004, 03:05:23 AM »

Fred, I can't agree with you entirely regarding the cause of vertical strings but OTOH your succes in curing the 25'06 speaks well for your assessment :grin:

My old TCR did the same thing and I could create a vertical string and pretty much call the length of it by the amount of downward pressure applied from shot to shot. Groups could be brought into round by simply using the method I mentioned. Not just one or two groups observed but several hundred.

Applying the same method, I get round groups [not small, but round :grin: ] with my 223 handi also but can bring on a vert string by ignoring proper weight distribution. I dothink you are 100% correct on the lock-up being the source of the problem. The wear on the mating surfaces on my 223 clearly show a poor fit. I'll have to read your write up on the solutions to see if it might be worth messing with on mine. When I say "worth messing with" i'm not refereing to the value of your method, but rather the ultimate worth of the NEF :grin:

Fred M · « **Reply #39 on:** December 13, 2004, 10:39:35 AM »

Longcruise.
You can't loose, the job is simple and costs practically nothing. A flat 3/16 punch, a hammer, a needle file, lip stick, acetone, and some Steel bed or the two part epoxy steel that come in two small tubes. I have a few , that is very few, dual springs available if you know how to fit one.

Longcruise · « **Reply #40 on:** December 13, 2004, 03:08:13 PM »

Quote

You can't loose, the job is simple

Hey, you don't know me. I can turn any simple operation involving tools into an unnatural disaster!

Most people wonder how they will die, but I already know I will check out as a result of a run-away power tool. :shock:

Actually, i went to your site and printed the accurrizing page to a PDF file and will try to get it read this eve. You got pop-up city with that angefire outfit :shock:

Fred M · « **Reply #41 on:** December 13, 2004, 03:47:50 PM »

Longcruice.

You are funny, runaway power tool. that is hilarious.

You got pop-up city with that angelfire outfit. Yah, it is a riot and I don't like it. It used to be not too bad.

I provide free info and I don't want to pay for that. I need some help to set up my own with my ISP which is also free but has limited web space.

My daughter and I will set it up during CHRISTmas and see how much I can cram in. The trouble is my web site is so well known people will miss it at that URL. Don't know how to get a message across if I shut down angelfire?