Author Topic: Handguns for Bears  (Read 1539 times)

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Offline Smokem

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Handguns for Bears
« on: October 29, 2004, 08:31:02 AM »
I have a Ruger SRH in 454 casull. I use the 300 grain load for Maine bears. What is the opinion on a handgun caliber and bullet weight for bears?

Black Bears-
Brown Bears-
Grizzly Bear-
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Offline Lawdog

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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2004, 03:55:02 PM »
Smokem,

For hunting Black Bears the .454 will work fine.  I have taken a few with a .44 mag. and if that worked the Casull.  For the bigger bears like the Inland Grizzly or Brown Bears I wouldn't use any handgun.  Now that is hunting conditions.  For protection against bears, I would bet my life or the life of a loved one on a handgun.  I don't care what the caliber is.  Lawdog
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Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2004, 06:28:36 PM »
In the hands of a cool headed and very experienced handgun hunter the .454 Casull if more than enough. It has been used to take probably every critter that walks the earth today. For that matter so has the .44 Magnum and that includes all the dangerous bears and elephant and all the Big Five.

BUT the fact you asked tells me you are NOT that cool headed very experienced handgun hunter. If you were you'd already know the answer and wouldn't have asked.

My advice is to gain more handgun hunting experience on game that doesn't bite back before thinking about taking on game that does with handgun. As long as you feel the need to ask I say you're not ready.

For black bear I "might" use a 300 grain jacketed bullet but likely it would be the FA 300 JFN or maybe the Sierra 300 JSP which seems really tough to me. Don't think I personally would use any other JSP or JHP on them.

For brown or grizzly there is no jacketed bullet I'd personally use. I'd want only a heavier hard cast. I'd start at about 325 grains and go up from there. If you don't handload and/or cast your own then the Buffalo Bore or COR-BON ammo would be the way to go.

Personally I'd rather have more bullet than the .454 can toss but stilll it will do find IF the handgun does fine. I'd use my .480 with 430 grain hard cast bullets were I to do it. Of course I'll never have the money to hunt the big bears. But I have been handgun hunting for almost 40 years now and have taken a lot of game with them. I am comfortable hunting game with handguns. I also shot them in competition with very good winning record for many years.


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Offline Smokem

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Handguns for Bears
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2004, 02:06:32 AM »
I have been deer hunting in Maine for 18 years. I am quite confident in my handgun skills. Last year was my first with my 454 handgun. I have not had the opportunity to take a Maine black bear with my rifle (.30-06) plenty of power I know. I know that the 454 with the 300 grain hard lead is plenty of power for a Maine black bear.
I was looking for input on the other "Big Bear" species. A few of us are thinking about going to Alaska for a bear hunt. I really don't want to buy a rifle for a one time trip. So I was looking for input/opinion on a good heavy load for an Alaskan bear.
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Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2004, 02:54:38 AM »
Quote from: Smokem
I have been deer hunting in Maine for 18 years. I am quite confident in my handgun skills. Last year was my first with my 454 handgun. I have not had the opportunity to take a Maine black bear with my rifle (.30-06) plenty of power I know. I know that the 454 with the 300 grain hard lead is plenty of power for a Maine black bear.
I was looking for input on the other "Big Bear" species. A few of us are thinking about going to Alaska for a bear hunt. I really don't want to buy a rifle for a one time trip. So I was looking for input/opinion on a good heavy load for an Alaskan bear.


Are you going for black bear or Grizzly? If you are going for Grizzly I would suggest you buy a new rifle. If you can afford a Grizzle bear hunt you can afford a new gun. Grizzly bear hunt start about $10,000.
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Offline Smokem

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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2004, 03:56:07 AM »
I know in Maine the 454 is plenty of gun for Black bear and whitetail deer or anything else that is in the Maine woods. The Alaskan hunt would be for brownies, grizzlies, kodiak what ever we decide on. I know that the price of a large caliber rifle is not a big deal for a trip like that and I may have to make the purchase if we do this trip. Again I was looking for handgun input.
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Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2004, 05:42:49 AM »
To hunt either grizzly or brown bear in Alaska you'll have to have a guide and the cost of hunt is likely to exceed $10,000 for either. Yes the .454 Casull should be fine as long as you're up to the challenge. You seem to think you are and seem to have a fair amount of experience handgun hunting. So if you're dead set on it go for it.

Talk it over with your guide or outfitter tho to see what ranges to expect shots. Generally they don't allow shots at the big bears at much over handgun range anyway. And you'll have a guide backing you with a BIG rifle ready to shoot if your bear doesn't go straight down. Plenty of folks take such game each year with handguns.

For sure I'd use more than a 300 grain bullet and for sure it would be a hard cast were I taking the hunt you are thinking of. I'd use my own cast 325 or 330 grain bullets most likely in my own handloads. But I'd also feel comfortable with Buffalo Bore or COR-BON heavy hard cast loads.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline Smokem

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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2004, 06:39:47 AM »
Our possible Alaskan hunt will be the topic at the camp in 3 weeks.
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Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2004, 11:26:31 AM »
Quote from: Smokem
Our possible Alaskan hunt will be the topic at the camp in 3 weeks.


Smokem, your 454 casull will work and as Graybeard posted, you will be close to the Bear. I would consult your guide and get his take on it all. I had a Super Redhawk in 454 Casull as my tent gun when I was in Alaska hunting Caribou. We did have a large Grizzle come within 200 yards of our camp. Just the shear size of it made me wounder if I was under gunned with my 300 Win Mag, if things went bad.  :eek:  Make sure you use a good hard cast bullet for penetration and shot placement is critical when shooting the big bears. Good luck in you hunt and let us know how you make out.  :D

If I ever decided to do a grizzly bear hunt with a pistol, I would use my BFR in 500MAG. :D
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Offline RollTide

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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2004, 05:26:31 PM »
I know what you mean about buying a gun you will only use once.  Another alternative to the handgun would be to use a rifled slug gun.  Effective out to 100 yards and can be used for a lot of others things when you get back from AK.  I just bought a Mossberg 500 with a 19.5" rifled barrel at a local pawn shop for $115.  It is a good DEFENSE and HUNTING gun for AK bears.  Not as sexy as a 458 Lott, but plenty effective out to 100 yards if loaded properly.

Offline dabigmoose

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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2004, 02:01:07 AM »
Rolltide
 The shotgun on Brown bear is not very effective past 2O yards
even with a new fangled slug .Most Alaskan guides will not Even let a client take a shot  at a brownie with a  375 HH until under a 100 yards or closer and that goes double for handgun hunters as close as possible 454 or bigger and the guide will shoot the bear if you dont drop it first shot with a handgun.
On Brownies the slug gun is for close range defense Only. Your rifle IN 338 WIN MAG OR BETTER IS WHAT YOU GUYS NEED.Black bear you can shoot all day with a shotgun works fine on them.

Handguns are are useful as they are on your body at all times
and are a last resort when you lay your rifle down to far away while packing meat. But most people don't shoot them well and you usually only get one shot off maybe 2  thats when you have a bear mishap. The rifle should be your main defense weapon. Use common since and don't become complacent because you don't see bears running behind every tree.They are around give them that respect and your rifle should be
all you need.
Dabigmoose

Offline Moose-Hunter

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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2004, 03:38:04 PM »
A 454 Casull will kill a big brownie, but it doesn't mean you should use it. Too many different factors come into hunting, especially when bears are involved and when it's time to pull the trigger.

I think you're better of buying a 300 Win. Mag. or a 338 Win. Mag. for the big bears.

Offline Gowge

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Info On ALASKA Bear Hunting
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2004, 09:33:04 AM »
Quote from: Moose-Hunter
A 454 Casull will kill a big brownie, but it doesn't mean you should use it. Too many different factors come into hunting, especially when bears are involved and when it's time to pull the trigger.

I think you're better of buying a 300 Win. Mag. or a 338 Win. Mag. for the big bears.


Amen!  You can say that again.   A big Grizz Boar can cover a hundred yards in just seconds and you need to be able to hit that relatively small moving target with a handgun that produces quite a bit of recoil while you're fighting the urge to run or wetting your pants!  

http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/hunt_trap/hunting/huntak/huntak16.cfm

http://www.remington.com/magazine/preview/2003_0512_where2hit.htm



Make sure your guide has a very powerful rifle for your backup.   Might be hard to find a guide that will take you on a handgun only hunt.  There's been quite a few guides and clients chewed up in Alaska by Bears.  Guides who wind up with DEAD Clients don't stay in business too long (if they survive too).  

http://www.adn.com/front/story/5013985p-4942009c.html

http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/products/alaska_bear_tales.htm



Here's the latest one I know of....

http://www.adn.com/alaska/story/5457089p-5394616c.html

Helicopter had difficult time finding mauled sheep hunter
RESCUE: Man waited 3 hours for aircraft after he was attacked.


The Associated Press

(Published: August 22, 2004)
 
 
FAIRBANKS -- A Fairbanks man attacked by a grizzly east of Healy ended up with a punctured lung, a puncture wound on his neck and a shattered leg, according to a friend who visited him in the hospital and who years ago also experienced a bear attack.

Jim Johnson, 52, survived the mauling Friday, then called 911 on his cell phone for help. He waited three hours before a military helicopter found him.

Johnson was taken to Fairbanks Memorial Hospital, where he is recovering.

Johnson's encounter with the bear occurred near his camp at the confluence of the Little Delta River and Forgotten Creek, said Johnny McCoy, pastor of the First Baptist of North Pole and a substitute pastor at Johnson's church in Fairbanks.

McCoy, who knows firsthand about bear attacks, visited Johnson at the hospital.

"He lost a lot of blood," McCoy told the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner. "His head was covered in blood."

McCoy and longtime hunting partner Gary Corle were hunting moose three years ago when a bear rushed them. Corle managed to get a shot off before the bear turned on McCoy and chewed both of his arms and held his head in its jaws. McCoy's ear was ripped off and his eye hung outside the socket.

McCoy's encounter with a sow that nearly killed him happened not far from where Johnson's tangle, also with a sow grizzly, occurred.

Johnson's call reached the Fairbanks Police Department dispatch center, then was forwarded to the Alaska State Troopers at 9:17 a.m. Friday.

The 68th Medical Company got the notice but couldn't leave Fort Wainwright right away because of dense forest fire smoke in the area. Once in the air, the helicopter crew had trouble finding Johnson because the location they were given was off the mark.

They landed the helicopter several times and made calls on a satellite phone, trying to get updates that would lead them to the injured hunter, said Army Capt. Steve Pruitt, one of the two pilots who flew the Black Hawk during the rescue.

"I didn't want anything bad to happen to him and we were right there," Pruitt said. "It was pretty frustrating."

They saw several bears roaming the area that Pruitt estimated was within five miles of Johnson's camp.

Sgt. Jeff Turner, a medic on the Army Black Hawk helicopter, said Johnson told him the helicopter flew over him at least once before it found him. Johnson's camp was set up so it blended in with the scenery and wasn't very visible from the air, Turner said.

The smoke also required the helicopter to fly closer to the ground, Pruitt said, instead of flying at an altitude that would allow them to view more land.

Finally, one of the crew members spotted the reflective foil space blanket Johnson was lying under while he waited.

"We just took the right turn in the right spot and there he was," Pruitt said.

Turner said they stabilized Johnson and packed him as the crew kept an eye out for bears in the area. The second pilot, Chief Warrant Officer Three Troy Dabney, stood as a lookout while Turner and crew chief Cpl. Mark Glenar prepared Johnson for the flight.

"From what I understand, he was packing up to leave, he was on a ridge line, in the saddle of the ridge and she came up over the lip," Turner said.

Johnson saw the sow with her two cubs but didn't have much time to react when she charged. He dove for his gun nearby.

"She beat him to it," Turner said. "She bit him a couple of times, batted him around a couple of times and then left."

GOOD LUCK!   :wink:
The wicked flee where no man pursueth but the righteous are bold as a lion.

Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2004, 09:43:33 AM »
Rifle ONLY hunters have absolutely no understanding or appreciation of the killing power of a big bore handgun. Used properly by an experienced handgunner it is fully the equal of ANY rifle you might chose to hunt game, dangerous or otherwise. Plenty of handgun hunters have successfully used handguns chambered for rounds from the .44 magnum to the .45 Colt to the .454 Casull to the .475 Linebaugh and the .375 JDJ to take every critter that walks the face of the earth.

Just because you have no experience with big bore handguns and do not understand the mechanism by which they work as well as rifles doesn't mean they don't work.


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Offline dabigmoose

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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2004, 09:21:19 PM »
Yep
  Big bore handgun hunters, bow hunters,and rifle hunters and black powder all have killed many a bear wIth out incident.
But all usually practice being very proficient with their chosen weapon. You must also study the terrain ,weather, and animal you are going after.
 Nothing more hair raising than stalking under the alders overhanging a stream bed to sneak up on a Brownie or crawling up to one sleeping in the alders on top of a moose kill.
This will make your blood pump just before that shot at 15 to 25 yards  you will need all the concentration you can
muster for the shot. Have had a few  clients decline and we retreated out of there.
It all boils down to what skill level you have and your comfort zone and thats putting it nicely. All the mentioned weapons are  capable of killing Brown Bear it usually is human error that leads to desaster.
But its one of the most exciting  hunts ever and I highly recomend it you will know your alive every sense will be charged.
DABIGMOOSE

Offline RollTide

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« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2004, 03:03:52 PM »
Dabigmoose,
Thanks for all the info.  You definitely are the person with the expertise in this area.  I was wondering what you thought of the new Dixie Xterminator which is a full .733 diameter, flat nose, 740gr hardcast solid slug at about 1400fps at the muzzle.  What do you think the effective killing range of that load would be on a big bear?  They are accurate enough for 100 yard work, but they may not be powerful enough beyond 20 yards as you say.  I just thought the slug gun so loaded would have a greater effective range than any handgun and be easier to shoot well.  I know the slug gun is not nearly as effective as a proper rifle as you said, but it should be better than any handgun in terms of power, range, and ease of shooting.  Since Smokem was considering a handgun for big bear, I thought the slug gun might make a decent alternative.  I stand corrected about the effective range of the slug gun and I appreciate you setting the record straight on that.

Thanks again,
Roll Tide

Offline dabigmoose

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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2004, 09:57:39 PM »
Rolltide
 That shotgun Slug might be ok for hunting bear but using any weapon
you should stride to use it in its most optimum area of power dispersement.
That would be close as possible. I have seen bears shot with the bolt
action slug guns with the sabot bullet type pellet from federal
using a rifled barrel and scope. They also Used brenneke slugs and special hand cast slugs that they were testing  out.
 These guys had well placed shots on black bear they did the job ,but as ranges got past 75 yards the bears were not dying as quickly and ran into the alders some 500 +yards away.lets say i wasn't impressed with the
retrieved projectiles.Slugs loose velocity quickly especially big flat nosed ones.
I tend to want something that would make a lion look like a prairie dog
shot with a 300mag when being charge by a big brownie.I like a big bore
rifle 500gr 2350 fps or better for defense.Hunting is different you can plan for a mishap and keep it from happening and plan the shot.
defense you may not have time to think .
Just my experience and you can use what ya like they may work never tried dixie slugs but up close they may work well.
dabigmoose

Offline loaded4bear

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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2004, 04:18:24 PM »
I've attached a photo of my friend's bear taken in Maine this year. His weapon of choice was a T/C Contender in .45 winchester magnum. Bear was shot over bait @ a distance of 25 yards. I myself prefer a rifle, but he swears by his pistol...one shot - one kill
 
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