Author Topic: Need advice on good binoculars (Read 1582 times)

Questor · « **on:** December 08, 2004, 03:23:36 AM »

I have compact binoculars and want to buy full size binoculars that are good in low light conditions (dawn and dusk) and for extensive glassing. Can you recommend a good one that is very close in quality to the Euro premium glass, but at a lower cost?

Thanks.

savageT · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2004, 04:05:16 AM »

Questor,
I have an excellent pair of Nikon 10x50 5.0" Kestrel binoculars that are about 10 years old. I don't know what current models you will find that are comparable.

Jim

jackfish · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2004, 04:50:14 AM »

Roof prism or porro prism? Roof prism are more compact and better waterproofed. Porro prism will offer an equal view of a roof for much less money.

The best roof prism binoculars under $400 are the Eagle Optics Ranger Platinum Class, Celestron Regal LS, Wind River Pinnacle and Alpen Apex. These are good values and offer surprisingly good views.

$300 class roof prisms that are servicable are the Wind River Olympic, Bushnell Legend and Nikon Monarch ATB. Not as good as those listed above. If you can afford just a little bit more, then those above would be a better choice.

If you have up to $500 to spend then the only choice would seem to be the Pentax DCF SP 8x43mm. They are just about as good as those costing twice to three times as much. Check out 17th Street Photo.

You might also want to look for closeouts on the Bausch and Lomb Elites. If you can get them for around $500 jump on them.

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 2004, 06:14:30 AM »

Boy Rudy are you a day late even if not dollar short. I just sold a brand new Leica for $600. He should have picked them up at PO yesterday.

Take a look at the Bushnell Legend. Not sure what they are running right now, likely around $300. Excellent binocular. If you're not in a big hurry Bushnell should have the replacement for the B&L Elite with the Bushnell Elite name on them early next year. I've already made arrangements to have one headed my way as soon as they arrive. This one will be as good as the Europeans for half or less their price.

I have a lot of hours behind my Legend and it is superb. Worked better for me than the Leica really. To me the focus on the Leica was a bit more sensitive than I liked. Or maybe put another way the depth of field is more forgiving. I really like my Legend.

TheOpticZone · « **Reply #4 on:** December 08, 2004, 09:14:47 AM »

I would recommend the Nikon Monarch ATB, Bushnell Legends, Leupold Pinnacles or Leupold Olympics. All will suit your needs very well, but if you are going to do a lot of glassing to actually test them in your hand. I have noticed that there is a great deal of comfort difference between them. I think the Nikons feel the best followed by the Leupolds and then the Bushnells. Bushnells feel very uncomfortable to me, but the optics are nice. Like the Leupold, glass is nice, but don't like the eye cups.

goose7856 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 08, 2004, 04:17:20 PM »

if you are still looking on ebay right now, there is a Bausch and Lomb Elite w/ Raingaurd 10x42 for $479......it is a factory demo but still brand new.....pm me if you want the webiste.....(ill have to find it again!! :grin:

)

goose7856 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 08, 2004, 04:27:19 PM »

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31711&item=7119837990&rd=1

Oh just checked, here it is....... :eek: maybe this is one good option, idk, i just remembered seeing someone mention this, and for under $500 they said it was a good deal......well here it is!! :grin:

kapnkid · « **Reply #7 on:** December 08, 2004, 06:34:41 PM »

Are these glasses to be used in your back yard, a truck or walking about? In general you want low first number and big second numbers for low light work. Thus a 7x30 might be fine for bright daylight but show only gray at dusk. This is 7 power with a 30mm diameter front lens. I have an 11x80 by Celestron that will amaze you at twilight, but wear you out lugging them around. They are also not weatherized. The bigger the ratio of the second number to the first, the better they will be in dim light. Actually it's the ratio of their squares, if you want to get into detail. So 30 divided by 7 is 4 and 2/7 compared to 80 divided by 11 is 7 and 3/11. The bigger the number the better in low light.

You also get better images with coated lenses.

Medbill · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2004, 03:31:59 AM »

I can highly recommend this bino's. I have one of almost every model Don sells. Unbelievable quality at an even better price. Great lowlight glass.

Billy

Heres a review of two of them,

http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/RussianMilitaryBinoculars.asp

ercjr2001 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 11, 2004, 04:42:48 PM »

Bushnell Legends are excellent!!! For a price of $300+,- they can not be beat.
I compared the 10X42 Legends to several other top brands.
After I came up with a conclusion I asked my wife and the salesman at Bass Pro to compare the optics. I told them both to ignore the price and tell what they liked the best and why?
We tested:
Bushnell Legend 10 X 42
Leupold Pinnacle "
Steiner Perigrine "
" Night Hunter 10 X 50
Zeiss Conquest 12 X 45
Saworvski 10X 42

We looked across the store at a stuffed Ram and an Axis Deer.

The Bushnell Legends were a tad brighter than the Steiners to me and my wife and the salesman helping us said they felt the Legends were as bright as the Steiner Perigrines.
The Saworvski was the best but not by much.
The Zeiss Conquest was tied with the Legends for brightness but seemed to have a tad bit better resolution and color correction. It may have had something to do with the 12 power magnification.
The Steiner Perigrines had the best color correction but the Swarovski Binos were just as good in this department.
The Steiners ( 1st ), Zeiss and the Saworvski ( 2nd ) seemed to be the best made for durability.
I almost forgot, the Leupold Pinnacles did not come close! I was very dissapointed in the leupold Pinnacles.
Bushnell Legends held their own and then some in our comparison.
The legends seemed extremly bright and crisp.
The Legends also brought out the color and contrast of the fur on the stuffed animals.
For $300 they can't be beat!
The real test will have to be taken on a ridge looking 200 yards out a deer.

Graybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2004, 06:25:05 PM »

Guys I've been telling you about these Bushnell Legends for some while now. I've been using them for several years. I picked up a top of the line Leica with plans to replace the Legends with them. Instead I sold the Leica and kept the Legend. Yeah I really do like them. For the money I've not seen better yet. Maybe there is better for the money, I've just not seen it. Any company that thinks they have better can contact me for a review.

goose7856 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 12, 2004, 06:38:19 AM »

Gray, have you tried the Pentax DCF??

I have haerd that they are very nice also, but it seems like the Legends are the way to go....when ever I decide I really want good pair, Ill be getting some of the Legends, unless you find another pair that is better!!

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** December 12, 2004, 07:03:18 AM »

Quote

Graybeard, have you tried the Pentax DCF??

I don't want to say for certain but I "think" that's the one a fellow I hunted with a few years back had. I know it was a Pentax but I'm not sure of the model. He was tickled pink with it. I thought it was best tossed in the trash heap. I wouldn't have used it if given to me for free. Heck not even if someone had tried to pay me would I have used it.

Guess it's all what you're used to. I rebuild binoculars and other optical instruments for use by our troops for several years at an Army Depot. I know what quality is when I see it and have years of experience working on them. To me that particular Pentax was junk. I can say same for several Nikon binoculars belonging to others I've looked thru. Again specific model names/numbers I cannot remember on them.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #13 on:** December 12, 2004, 07:54:21 AM »

Bushnell is getting ready to bring back the Discoverer series binoculars under their name instead of the B&L banner. I have the 7x42 Discoverer model and they are great. The rain guard works and they are a cut above the Legend series. They cost a bit more too but IMHO worth the cost.

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** December 12, 2004, 08:49:16 AM »

I am pretty sure they will be bringing out the Elite line under the Bushnell name. I've spoken with Laura several times about the new Bushnell replacement for B&L line and she now tells me she should be able to ship me a review sample in January. She was hoping to have them in November but that got postponed as they hadn't yet been received.

GreatWaputi · « **Reply #15 on:** December 12, 2004, 09:48:30 AM »

The best bang for the buck in my opinion is the "refurbished" Nikon 10x42 or 8x42 Venturer/LX's that can be had from www.Ewins.com for right around $450.00 shipped. I've made two purchases from Ewins.com and both were flawless. Pretty hard to beat their price for world-class glass.

The refurbs are backed by a limited 90 day warranty, afterwhich they're covered by Nikon's "no fault" lifetime warranty, which allows you to send them back to Nikon for repair or replacement (their option) should the need ever arise for $10.00 plus the cost of return shipping, which is usually $7.50 in the lower 48 States. There's no questions asked and it doesn't matter if the damage was your fault. It's that simple.

I've owned Zeiss, Leica, Pentax SP's, Bushnell Legend's, and the Nikon Venturer's. And while the SP's and Legend's are pretty good glass for the money, IMHO, they're nowhere near as good as the others. The one drawback to the Nikon Venturer/LX's is their weight, but it's not unbearable with a good strap or harness system.

Another great deal is the Zeiss 10x40 ClassiC's from Cabelas for $699.99. They're crystal clear, lightweight, and dang near bulletproof. Just a few years ago they retailed at almost $1100.00, so $699.99 is a bargain.

If you're interested in some reading, check out the reviews at www.betterviewdesired.com and www.optics4birding.com. The Nikons are the "reference standard" at BVD.com and are well liked elsewhere.

I used to use cheap and mediocre binoculars until I made the mistake of looking through a buddies 10x42 Swarovski SLC's. Needless to say, I was hooked. Having looked back, if I could do things all over again, I'd have forgone buying a couple of rifles years ago and dropped the money on top quality binoculars instead.

I read somewhere once where a guy said, "No one ever looks through one of the top brands (Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski, and Nikon Venturer/LX's) and says, what's all the fuss about?" I couldn't agree more.

Good luck.

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** December 12, 2004, 01:07:50 PM »

Quote

I read somewhere once where a guy said, "No one ever looks through one of the top brands (Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski, and Nikon Venturer/LX's) and says, what's all the fuss about?" I couldn't agree more.

I looked. I wondered. I asked. I still wonder. I'm still using the Legend and let the Leica go to someone who can better appreciate them. I honestly prefer the Legend.

GreatWaputi · « **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2004, 04:38:00 PM »

Graybeard, I don't mean any disrespect, but I'm wondering if your eyes are good enough to see a difference? I've read on other boards where some guys, especially older guys, simply couldn't benefit from the last percentage of optical quality/clarity offered by the top brands because of their diminishing eyesight. Some guys even considered themselves lucky because they didn't have to drop the money for the top brands.

Anyway, if a guy is happy with mid-range binos, more power to them. For me, the Legends and Pentax DCF SP's just didn't measure up.

The best thing about the refurbished Nikon Venturer/LX's I suggested is that a guy can get top quality glass at about the same price as many mid-range binos. Seems pretty logical to me.

Just my .02$

Graybeard · « **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2004, 09:09:17 PM »

Quote

Graybeard, I don't mean any disrespect, but I'm wondering if your eyes are good enough to see a difference?

I guess the honest answer to your question is I dunno. But I don't need corrective lens for distance only up close to read. Beyond about 3' to 4' I see fine.

To my eyes there was no clear advantage to Leica over the Legend. But more importantly to me was the Legend fit me better ergonomically. It felt better in my hands and I preferred the focusing of it to the Leica. I took both out to my front porch late one afternoon after the sun had dropped behind the trees. I looked at objects both close and far away. I can see to several hundred yards there.

I just preferred the Legend so boxed up the Leica and eventually offered it for sale here and sold it.

I'm not saying there is no measureable difference cuz I don't have the equipment here to do the checks needed to say that. But to my eyes there was no clear cut and noticeable difference and the Legend fit me better thus my decision.

GreatWaputi · « **Reply #19 on:** December 13, 2004, 06:02:22 AM »

Quote

But more importantly to me was the Legend fit me better ergonomically. It felt better in my hands and I preferred the focusing of it to the Leica.

Ergonomics definately play a big part when it comes to choosing binoculars. That's why I suggest people test drive as many pairs as possible before buying. What might feel and look great to me, might feel terrible to the next person. In fact, as much as I like Leica's glass, their ergonomics aren't all that great for me. They feel like a brick in my hands and the eye-cups don't fit my face real well. The best fit for me has been the Zeiss 10x40 ClassiC's and the above mentioned Nikon's.

The Pentax DCF SP's felt great in my hands, but they didn't open wide enough to fit my face, which caused excessive glare on the lenses.

I guess what it boils down to is this; I'd suggest people buy the best glass they can afford, and buy one that looks good to their eyes and feels good in their hands. There's definately been some strides made in the mid-range binoculars over the past few years and $250.00-$700.00 buys a lot more glass than it did even five years ago. Hopefully that trend will continue.

Now that I think about it, the Legends I had were prior to them being "phase corrected", so that probably explains part of the reason why they didn't measure up in my opinion.

Take care.

Grubbs · « **Reply #20 on:** December 13, 2004, 10:31:12 AM »

the nikon venturers, as well as theElite 10x42's sound like pretty good deal to me. I do know one thing for certain. I can look through my Leica 10x42's for hours (which I do every year) at a time with no eye fatigue, headaches, etc. Awesome glass and very tough. No offense Graybeard, but I can't imagine anyone looking through the Legends (I do hear they are very good) and then picking up the Leica and saying there's no difference. One look is all it takes, and not in a lighted store....outside at pre-dawn and post dusk.

Graybeard · « **Reply #21 on:** December 13, 2004, 10:48:44 AM »

Quote

No offense Graybeard, but I can't imagine anyone looking through the Legends (I do hear they are very good) and then picking up the Leica and saying there's no difference. One look is all it takes, and not in a lighted store....outside at pre-dawn and post dusk.

What can I tell ya. I had both. They were both my own binoculars. I did exactly as you stated. Took them outside and used them under real world low light conditions to look at the kinda things you look at when hunting. Saw no optical advantage to the Leica. Ergonomics went to the Legend clearly for me. Might not for someone else. You're right, one look is all it took. I kept the Legend and sold the Leica.

Zachary · « **Reply #22 on:** December 13, 2004, 11:15:33 AM »

I looked through a friend's Legends last year and I was very impressed. For the money, they are hard to beat. The optics were sharp and bright and my eyes never strained, even after quite a few hours glassing.

Zachary

Grubbs · « **Reply #23 on:** December 13, 2004, 11:42:18 AM »

I wonder if 10-15 yrs from now people will still be using their legends when my Leicas are still going strong. I would imagine the vast majority of people, just assuming these two binoculars were free (wishful thinking), would keep the Bushnell over the Leica. Don't hardly think so.

Graybeard · « **Reply #24 on:** December 13, 2004, 11:55:16 AM »

Guesss I don't know for sure if I'll even still be around to be using the Legends that far into the future. If my health goes down as much in the next 10-15 years as it has the last five even then I might be using them to look at birds from front porch assuming I'm still here at all but unlikely to be chasing game with them. Still I see no reason to believe they won't be perfectly usable then. My Steiners are at least that old if not older and are still fine bincoulars. Faye has taken them over and now claims them as hers. I'd be willing to bet that if my oldest son hadn't lost or let my Leupold pre wind river 10x40 get stolen I'd still be using them. The Steiners replaced them.

Still I do plan to get a new Bushnell replacement for the old B&L early next year and if I like it better it will be my main go to binocular. It won't completely replace the Legend tho. I like them too well for that.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** December 13, 2004, 12:01:27 PM »

Quote from: Grubbs

I wonder if 10-15 yrs from now people will still be using their legends when my Leicas are still going strong. I would imagine the vast majority of people, just assuming these two binoculars were free (wishful thinking), would keep the Bushnell over the Leica. Don't hardly think so.

Considering they both have a lifetime warranty, I don't think it would make any difference.

http://www.bushnell.com/products/binoculars/legend_roof.html

Grubbs · « **Reply #26 on:** December 14, 2004, 05:32:25 AM »

It'll make a difference if after 10 yrs of hard use (which mine get), if the Bushnell is even operable at that time. I suspect my Leica's will be. Make no mistake, I understand the legends to be real good, especially at that price, but to say they are just as good as Leica, Swaro, or Zeiss? I just can't see it. Are the premium brands $1000 better? Probably not. I guess if everyone concurs with the legend = Leica....Leica will be out of business in no time.

Questor · « **Reply #27 on:** December 14, 2004, 08:45:34 AM »

I have Leica compacts and they are fantastic for my general purposes, except that I'd like a full size binocular for lower light situations. Before buying the Leicas I went to a place that sold a broad selection of binoculars and also happened to have some dim areas in their showroom. I compared all of the available high end compacts and picked the Leicas for ergonomic reasons partly, and optic reasons too. For some reason they looked better than the Swarovskis or Nikons. Don't ask me what the difference was. I also liked the eye relief of the Leicas and the adjustments. I have had no regrets and I use them very often.

In fact, I have a pair of 7x42 Vivitars that are optically very good, but are mechanically poorer that I would like. I get eyestrain with long glassing and it can be a problem to adjust it.