Black Powder Cartridge Shotguns

[Reb]

Ok, Ok,  I know it says "Rifles" but is anyone loading the black stuff in shotgun shells? (Besides me that is?)  Somewhat messy but lots of fun; and boy do you have to adjust your leads!


Reb

[KING]

Yup..i have done that..about 20 yrs ago..everyone thought i was nutz...well...they still do,i guess..lots of fun..i could not come up with a good reason to continue doing it,cause i have a front stuffer double barrell shotgun anyway..but it is fun...if ya dont tell anytone what ya did before ya starts shootin,they look at ya kinda....strange :shock:

[Charlie Detroit]

For more than 30 years, and they was in the back of a farmer's closet then, but Dixie used ta sell 'em, and if'n you can get some o' them ol'fashioned ALL-BRASS shotshells, you is just about struck gold! Really authentic, and they last for a long time, too. 'Coure, findin' the proper loadin' technique will probably keep ya in the library for a spell.

[Reb]

Anybody care to post some loads?

I have been shooting my black powder loads in a damascus barrel hammered double.  I had it checked by a professional and I "proofed" it with some slight overloads.  I am only using light loads of 7/8 oz. of shot over 60.5 grains of Goex FFFg in a Double A hull.  I only use the gas seal portion of a white Winchester wad for an overpowder wad.

Been toying with changing the load a bit.  Maybe using triple seven or even (gasp) smokeless.  Solo 1000 would only generate 4000 to 5000 psi and should be safe.  Any loads or opinion?

Reb

[Reb]

Ok, Ok, I get it!

No smokeless.

Correct me if I am wrong;  There are 2 major reasons for not using smokeless in a good damascus barrel (mine was checked out).  The concern about barrel strength and small imperfections in the laminations causing a blow-up and the fact that smokeless loads usually operate at much higer pressures than the old black powder loads.

The smokeless loads I had been thinking about (notice past tense here) were as low as 3,400 psi and had been used supposedly in some CAS events with some damascus guns.  I am aware of the pressure concerns of smokeless versus black but I think a smokeless load in the 3,400 psi range would have been safe in my gun.  Unless I am mistaken 3,400 psi is even lower pressure than many, if not most vintage black powder loads.

The biggest concern I had (beside maintaining all current appendeges) was that the pressure curve of the smokeless load was much more compressed in time and therefore would cause a sharper peak pressure spike in the breech than that of black.  I don't see how that would be possible with such a mild smokeless load.

My main objective in exploring smokeless for that shotgun was to REDUCE wear and tear from recoil and extensive cleaning as well as the potential of any barrel rupture by using a LIGHTER load.  Also it would be nice to have a load that could be made on standard reloading equipment.


Reb

[ButlerFord45]

I do my bunny hunting with a 20ga sxs, and a coulpe of things that I've learned are Don't  shoot too close in dry grass, and immediately step up wind after your first shot.  Black powder shotgunning is as it gets for me.
Some general information:  Dram= 1/16oz  7000gr/lb devided by 16oz/lb
devided by 16  =  27.something grains
To start working up a load, the volume of powder and the volume of shot should beabout equal
Plastic wads WILL melt in the barrel however hot soapy water and a tight patch will clean it righ up
The "Drams Equilivant" on the box gave the 19th century shooter a way to compare the speed of the new smokless stuff to their old stand by loads
Shot cups cut off of modern wads tend to tighten patterns
Higher velocity loads tend to open patterns
Old roll crimpers are still being found on ebay
http://www.circlefly.com  has good prices on wads, are very knowledgeable and willing to help   (I'm not positive of the url, if thats not correct do a search for Circlefly wads.
Equlivent Black Powder loads do not seam to have as much felt recoil
Black powder shells do not allow a gas operated shotgun to function for long
Doubles at the skeet range become an even greater challenge
I love the fire breathing dragon so I use 3" 20ga when I can get'em
While not quite as good as sex, is more readily available and the grin lasts longer


Butler Ford

[Newt]

Last summer I bought a Double bore 10 Ga. Parker Bros.Did some reserch and found that it was made in 1868.Got a DIXIE catalog and loaded some hot loads for waterfoul,useing Bismuth.I first started useing 109 gm.ffg and the same volume of shot,(use the same dipper) with a plastic shot cup,Bismuth shot buffer, with a over shot wad and rolled crimped.This load I put in a 2 7/8" hull that I cut down from a 3 1/2" new, primed hull.  Any how the load was too much for my shoulder and middle finger where it lays behind the tiggerguard.Cut down the powder to 100gr ffg and put a 12 ga felt wad in the shot cup before adding the Bismut shot. Man She is stil hitten hard --but I can handle ths load.
  Here in New Jersey we have to use shotguns to hunt deer.So I gave the old 10 bore a try. Using the 109 gm ffg in the 2 7/8 cut down  hull, a cut off shot cup,and 16 - 00 buckshot, shot buffer ,over shot wad then roll crimped.Yes It still hurts but the deer go down.Next time a load the buckshot. I will cut down the load like I did with the duck load.   www.snareone.com

[Peddler Parsons]

 Howdy !

   My 12 gauge sxs load is:  Federal paper hulls - 4.3cc (47.7 grs) Pyrodex or 777 (a bit more potant) - a pink shot cut - and 1oz. of 7 1/2 shot.
In plastic AA hulls: same powder but use red wads: in STS hulls use the white half split cups.  The reason for the different cups is that the hulls have differen heights in the bottom at the primer and this make the cup line up with the crimp ring.

[Longknife]

Been shoot'n b-p shells in a 1889 rem 12, sxs, use 80 grns pdr and a 100gr charge full o #4s, shoot this in a couple of old Belgium guns too!!! also load a .715 round ball over 80grns powder, shoots GOOD!!!!! Just cut off an old Belgiunm gun to 22", gonna "back bore" it to choke it and maybe try it on Deer next year.  BLACK POWDER FOREVER!!!!!!!!

[minker]

 howdy all ,i'm new on here. any of you know where i can get new made brass 10ga. shells or a resizer to resize old ones i have so they'll chamber in my gun and i can reload them? i have a 10ga. double w/hammers, belguim made,says dianna on top of the gun. i've shot 27/8" black powder blanks thru it, then reloaded them but i'd love to have some brass case loads for it. its a cannon breech gun,22" barrels. also ,how do you roll crimp those sells?  mark

[Reb]

Minker,

A company called Ballistic Products Inc. (BPI) puts out a technical paper on reloading brass shotshells.  Their website is www.ballisticproducts.com.

Reb

[minker]

thanks alot for the info reb, theres aworld of info on that site. i sent for one of the catologs. cant wait to load some brass shells for my old hand cannon. i hope theres info on loading punkin balls or slugs, i'd like to shoot a deer with it. thanks again . mark