Shooting patches source.

[New Hampshire]

Can anyone give me a source to buy shooting patches for 50 cal roundball shootn', specifically .020"?  Ive got a Lyman deerstalker that, now that season for her is over, will get some heavy experimentation done to her.  Lostid has given some good places for me to start with, and one was a .495 roundball and .020" patch.  Unfortunately the thickest I can find are Ox-yoks in .018".  I know the best way is to do it yourself.  But Im lazy, so thats my excuse and Im sticking to it.  
So can anyone help?
Brian M.

[IntrepidWizard]

Go to a Yardage store and get some Bed ticking .15 wash it ,and then get some canvas,take your Callipers.

[quickdtoo]

When you're at the fabric store measuring and mic'in, make sure the fabric you choose is 100% cotton, not synthetics. The thicker fabrics may be found in the denims, bull shot is one of my favorites.

[lostid]

 I know the best way is to do it yourself.  But I'm,,

 sorry pal :oops:  you know it,,you've studied enough. Wanna try the "next step"?
  If you start now,,and study/pratice hard, by spring or mid summer you'll finally find that confidence. Wanna personal coach? Then look fer "Dutch".

 It'll take but few monthes tyme,,and ya it takes a few$ ta study/practice. But once you learn his school,,it'll last a lifetyme.

goog, Dutch Schoultz

[Birddog6]

Take a dial caliper with ya & visit several fabric stores.   If ya find what ya want buy all ya can as it is getting harder to come up with the thick stuff since it is mostly imported now.  I bought a 30 yard bolt at Hancock Fabrics a few months ago as it is the first thick pillow ticking I have found in a long time.  The  .013 to .015 pillow ticking can usually be bought at Walmart.  If you have a JoAnne  Fabrics near they usually have some thick material.

Also you will find people & places mic it differently.  A .015 of Oxjoke is what I measure to be about .012-.013 or so. Their .020 measures .017 to me....  

I would think the .495 ball & the .018 patch would work well in your rifle. You may have to hammer a .020 patch /ball combo into it.

[Shorty]

Jeezum! Commercialism!  :roll:
I wear out jeans faster than I can shoot them up!  :wink:

[jeager106]

Like birddog6 says, .020 is a might thick.
go to your nearest fabric store and buy some ticking from .015 to .018 and cut the lubed patches at the muzzle.
You can precut them if you want and square patches shoot as good as round ones.
Use any good patch lube. Bore Butter works as does Crisco, or Lehigh Valley liquid lube.
Or find Ducth Schultz on the web and spend 15 bucks and learn more than you thought you could. ( right tacks?)
Just don't get goofy with the lube and use too much.
If you MUST use .020 then you want cotton denim also at any fabric store.
Wally World even carries ticking and denim.
Wash it first to remove the sizing, let hang dry, use ONLY 100% cotton.
Each bolt of material is marked on the end with the cloth composition, you want ONLY 100% cotton.
Don't use your old blue jeans either.
Ticking only runs 3 to 4 bucks a yard and that's a LOT of patches.

[New Hampshire]

Thanks for all the replies.  Well, maybe I should start with the .018" first and see if that works first.  Ive also decided to switch over to Ballistol instead of using Bore butter again.  As for Dutch.  I got his address to mail to a few eeks ago.  Once the hollidays are over I am probably gonna send away and see what all the Hub Bub is about.
Thanks again,
Brian M.

[Longcruise]

I don't measure any patch material anymore.  If it works, fine and I don't care how thick it is.  I used to measure but just don't bother any more.  I have a bunch of different "go-to" materials and usually one of then will work good with just about any gun.

Try this, go to an art supply store and pick up some yardage of artists canvas.  They sell it off the roll and unsized.  My local shop, Meiningers [sp] has four different weights that are rated by the oz.  Back in the day when I did measure patch material, I found the heavuer stuff mic'd .023.  Same rules applay about washing it first.

A patch material that "blows out" in one gun might work great in another.  I think it has mostly to do with fit.

[Birddog6]

If you have not shot it yet you don't have any idea what thickness of patch ya need.  Order some .010, .015, .025 Oxjoke & shoot the rifle & see which one you want to use.  Then go on a patch material hunt later after ya get the gun shooting & grouping. You are probably gonna find the .018 &.020 too tight with a.495 ball & a that barre, so an .015 will probably work.

[New Hampshire]

If you have not shot it yet you don't have any idea what thickness of patch ya need.  Order some .010, .015, .025 Oxjoke & shoot the rifle & see which one you want to use.  Then go on a patch material hunt later after ya get the gun shooting & grouping. You are probably gonna find the .018 &.020 too tight with a.495 ball & a that barre, so an .015 will probably work.

No, no.  I HAVE shot it already.  I was using it for hunting this year.  I want to experiment because the best I could get at 50 yards using a .495 Hornady Roundball and .015" pre-lubed T/C Patch with bore butter was just enough to safely take deer.  But at about 5 inches that really aint what I call great (I was getting better groups at 25 yards of course.)  The current combo, while a little firm going down, is not what I would call super tight.  Add to the fact that Ive had more then one person here, with deerstalkers, say they were using .495 balls with patches of either .018" or .020".  These gents tell me that these guns, with a 1:48 twist, like nice tight fitting patched balls (dry lubed.)  Im also probably gonna fiddle with some conicals, but for some reason I just like roundballs.
Brian M.

[crow_feather]

New Hampshire,

If that rifle be somewhat new, it could be the sharp riflin cuttin yer patches.  If you haven't got at least 150 shots through it, shoot some more, then determine what thickness of patch you need.  If it has more than 150 patches through the barrel, then please disregard.  One other trick is to drop a dry patch down the bore before you drop the patched round ball.  Try it once or twice.

C F

[New Hampshire]

Crow Feather,
I dont know if it means anything but I have recovered 3 patches from my gun (it has less than 25 rounds through it.)  All were fine.  Not cuts or burns (outside of the typical shmootz spot on the bottom) and no blown out patches.  Granted this is just 3 patches.  So like I said, I dont know if this really means much?
Brian M.

[New Hampshire]

OK, here is what I just did.  I was reading my owners manual for the rifle.  They showed a picture of what the ball should look like when it has been down the bore with a patch.  Specifically its supposed to have markings from the patch around the whole circumference with the heavier markings where the lands are and the lighter where the grooves are.  Well all I got was markings from the lands and no grooves.  So this may indeed indicate a thicker patch is requiered?
Brian M.

[quickdtoo]

Or a bigger ball! Going to a .498" ball and a thinner patch would also be an option and usually a more accurate choice in my experience....but I always liked a real snug fit, some shooters don't, and it really just depends a lot on your barrel, depth of rifling and condition. What you should end up with is heavy engraving at the lands and a pattern of the fabric engraved in the groove area. I've even shot .500" and .502" balls is some of my .50s in a quest for the really accurate load, anything to beat the competition by a little....but in the end, it's the shooter that makes the real difference, assuming all else is fine. :oops:

[fffffg]

if you dont have holes in the patches they are fine. looks to me your having wiping problems, not patch problems..  one key to good accuracy with bp muzzeloaders is to clean bore properly with the wipe.. pay attention to the first shot of the day and see if they are going to the same place each time out with same load..  when you wipe the wipe patch and jag must be TIGHT with just the right amount of wipe liquid, that cleans and not cause misfires..    this is dutches territory, pay your dues and your problems will with experience dissapear..  dave.

[New Hampshire]

The only problem with wiping is that there aint no way Im gonna be doin that in the woods while hunting.  Ill be honest, I like shooting BP and wouldnt mind spending some time to get to the point of one hole at 50 and 75 yards.  But the reality is my BP interests (at least currently) are minly focused at killing deer.  While I know that wiping between shots = accuracy Im only looking to improve what was rather bad groupings of 5-6 inches at 50 yards to something more respectable like 1 1/2-3 inches at 50, and if I could get that same 5-6 inches at 100 yards....all the better.  Besides, not wiping would produce results more indicative of what I would find while hunting.  Ive found a place that sells .018" Pillow ticking patches and .020" cotton patches, both from Ox-yoke.  Ill experiment with those.  I also want to give the CVA powerbelts a try.  They sell an all lead hollow point that looks worth trying.  I cant move up to an .498 ball unless I start casting.  Like I said Im lazy, and my mom already complains I got too mcuh junk lying around.  changing patch thickness soundds like the "easier" opton for now.
Brian M.

[Birddog6]

I suggest you buy a bottle of Lehigh Lube & load it fairly wet & that will eliminate you wiping at all between shots when hunting, you can still get a tight patch/ball down the barrel & your group size will most likely be 1/2 of what it is right off the bat. The Lehigh drys promptly so you basically end up shooting a drylubed patch & they are the most accurate combo's I have ever acquired out of a ML.  Then work on a charge what closes it up even more.
As for swabbing when hunting. When I shoot at a deer I automatically reach in my pocket & grab a dark blue or dark green precut tee shirt patch I have in there & stick it in my mouth & get it good & wet, swab the bore with the jag already attached to my RR, all the while watching the deer I shot at & etc. (I swab after shooting because I am using a greased patch & a very tight ball/patch combo)   I swab down & back One Time & it is not a real tight jag/patch combo, but actually just slightly snug, with a modfied jag, so it pushes past the cruds & gathers & pull the excess cruds out on the outstroke.  You can Easily do this without looking after practicing at the range for a few times. When I am satisified what the deer is doing, then I reload.  This  BS about reloading & getting off another quick ML shot on a deer is just that.... B.S.  & unnecessary.  All you do is hurry & make another poorly placed shot...    Be a sport about it, make One Good Shot, a good clean direct one in the broiler-room shot.... then go get your deer.

Also, know your limitations.  If you know you can make a accurate kill shot at 50 yards, fine. Don't take the 75 yard one, let it go & wait on another day when you are better or the deer is closer.  I know VERY FEW people that can hit a 6" kill zone off hand at 100 yards.  In fact, you take a dozen average hunters & you would  be lucky to find 5 out of the 10 that could do it with a HP rifle and scope, let along iron sights & a ML.  

Years ago I used to put 4-5 gallon milk jugs in the back of my truck when we went deer hunting. At the end of the day we would set them out at 100 yards.  You would be simply amazed of how many guys cannot hit those milk jugs.....

Find a load wthat will cut one hole at 25 yards & under 1" at 50 yards & then you can play with other lubes & bullets.  It is IMPORTANT you do all of this test shooting off a bench with sand bags, we have to get the gun to shoot first, then work on your shooting.  Good Luck.

[New Hampshire]

Thanks for some more great advice birddog.

I too agree, the first shot is the most important.  But in all things being prepared is only common sense.  Im not too worried about needing a second shot, and if I do it will probably be at close range walking up to a downed deer.  I shot the current combo at 50 yards both benched and offhand and found that this was about the max distance I would shoot at an animal with this combo.  And indeed the opportunity appeared this season to take 2 deer at about 60 to 70 yards distance.  I passed on those shots because I knew what I, and my gun, could do.  I also passed on a 4 pointer that was only about 40 yards distance, but he was facing me and there was a few twigs from a sappling that were blocking the chest.  I passed on this shot too because it just felt too "iffy" for me.

Well I guess I got some fiddling around to do now.  The season is offically over.  Guess Ill have something to do when the snow is flying.......hmm BP smoke and snow flakes.  Sounds interesting  :grin: .
Brian M.
P.S. Im also gonna start toying with REAL black powder also instead of just Pyrodex.  That could be contributing to the problem too.

[xnmr53]

New Hampshire,

While shooting for groups, what the wiping does is to keep the barrel closer to the condition that it will be in when you fire that (hopefully) one shot that downs that tropy buck. It doesn't make much sense to test a load for accuracy when you are allowing the barrel fowling to change your test parameters from shot to shot. You want each shot to be as close to what you will using in the field as possible. In your case, you may wish to make sure that the barrel is VERY clean between shots, since I doubt that you will be firing a fouling shot before you set out to hunt.

In black powder, consistency is everything. If you doubt that, shoot a flinter for a while. :twisted:

[flintlock]

You could also try two .010 patches...I had a buddy that had a problem with a TC Hawken, about 15yrs ago...brought it to me to help with...I believe I went down to 80gr ff...He had been trying 100-120ff...It was burning through .015 patches...Of course he had waited until week before deer season for me to help...I happened to have some .010 patches in my box...this fixed problem...he used like that for a few...then bought one of those new fangled things...even put a telescope thingy on :-D  :-D  :-D

[New Hampshire]

Hmmm never thought of that flintlock!  Unfortunately the shops around here are less than enthusiastic about providing supplies for BP shooters/hunters (especially if your not an in-line shooter........sabots and sabots galore, but balls.....only if you like the .495 persuasion and nothing else.)  I cant even get un-lubed T/C patches, only pre-lubed with bore butter.  And of course that means .015 or nothing.  So no matter what I do I have to order tham.  But what I think I might do, since it really dont cost that much anyways, is pick up both sizes (.018" and .020") and start thin and if need be go up.  My Uncle just bought a white mountains carbine and is having similar problems (only a bit worse than me,) so maybe he can use the .020s if I dont.   I suppose I should also order some .490 balls and try those with different patch sizes.
Anither quick question for ya folks.  Again, wonderfully supportive folks they are, the local gun shop only had Goex Powder.  Should I be thinking of picking up another brand or two as well, or will (at least for all practical purposes as far as hunting goes,) the Goex suit me just fine and worry more about patch/ball/conical combinations?
Thanks again,
Brian M.

[New Hampshire]

Ok.  I picked up some 2f Goex.  I also found some Un-lubed T/C patches, the usual .015".  I decided I might as well try dry patching with the Ballistol and .015" patches.  I dont expect any improvement from the BB patches, but at least I can rule out the BB as the cause.  I also came close to picking up some .50 HP powerbelts at Wallyworld.  Unfortunately they only had the heavy 295 gr. and I was pretty sure they were not gonna do very great in my gun.  They also had some Barnes bullets w/sabots as well (actually cheaper than the Powerbelts.)  And although they were 240 gr. they were very long and I dont know how that would effect the equation.  Its probably for the best anyways.  I am more inclined to give the nod to the patched ball.  Dont know why, guess it was Sam Fadala praising it so much.  Dont plan on shooting deer anywheres near past 100 yards, so the patched ball is all Ill really probably EVER need.
Brian M.

[roundball]

Hmmm never thought of that flintlock!  Unfortunately the shops around here are less than enthusiastic about providing supplies for BP shooters/hunters (especially if your not an in-line shooter........sabots and sabots galore, but balls.....only if you like the .495 persuasion and nothing else.)  I cant even get un-lubed T/C patches, only pre-lubed with bore butter.  And of course that means .015 or nothing.  So no matter what I do I have to order tham.  But what I think I might do, since it really dont cost that much anyways, is pick up both sizes (.018" and .020") and start thin and if need be go up.  My Uncle just bought a white mountains carbine and is having similar problems (only a bit worse than me,) so maybe he can use the .020s if I dont.   I suppose I should also order some .490 balls and try those with different patch sizes.
Anither quick question for ya folks.  Again, wonderfully supportive folks they are, the local gun shop only had Goex Powder.  Should I be thinking of picking up another brand or two as well, or will (at least for all practical purposes as far as hunting goes,) the Goex suit me just fine and worry more about patch/ball/conical combinations?
Thanks again,
Brian M.

FYI.....TC markets .018" prelubed pillow ticking patches...all I use in all calibers...outstanding patches