Author Topic: Current short gun carry laws... (Read 1436 times)

ironglow · « **on:** December 13, 2004, 03:25:22 PM »

I have had my carry permit since 1972, so I am not really up to date on handgun rules. Will you answer a question for me?
When I got my permit we were REQUIRED to carry openly...now I guess that "wisdom" is reversed...so...

If I carry my handgun openly in the woods while hunting...am I breaking the law?

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2004, 03:34:36 PM »

I suppose it depends on which permit you got. I recieved mine in 74 and it was a Concelled Carry. Which meant under the usual regulations, fed. buildings, court houses, places serving alcohol....it was concelled. You have to have your permit on you too.

Have things changed?

NYH1 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2004, 03:52:57 PM »

Quote from: Daveinthebush

I suppose it depends on which permit you got. I recieved mine in 74 and it was a Concelled Carry. Which meant under the usual regulations, fed. buildings, court houses, places serving alcohol....it was concelled. You have to have your permit on you too.

Have things changed?

Its basically the same way now. In New York State your pistol MUST be concealed. If your hunting and carrying openly...I don't think anyone will say anything. If your walking at the mall, you can get into some trouble, and maybe even loose your permit, at least for awhile!

ou812 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2004, 01:33:27 AM »

Not to sound like a renegade, but Ive openly carried while hunting and I will continue to do so until Im told any different. I find it kind of ridicules that any law would require you to carry concealed while hunting. It would be pretty difficult to draw on game that way. Besides, how would someone conceal a 14" T/C contender? I seriously doubt any authority would ever give you a hard time over openly carrying while hunting, but the only real way to find out for sure is to call the pistol licensing bureau for your county and/or the DEC and ask.

Regards,
OU812

rebAL · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2004, 02:28:10 AM »

My permit (Issued in 60's) has no restrictions. What does this mean?

W · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2004, 03:26:59 AM »

I got my license in 84(Dutchess County) and it says "License to Carry Pistol is Hereby Granted" - there is no mention of conceal carry. But I remember appling for conceal carry.
About 2 years ago we were stopped by a DEC officer for a hunting license check and I was carrying my .44 openly and he said nothing about it.

Mikey · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2004, 03:37:35 AM »

rebAl: No restrictions means concealed carry. My concealed carry permit was issued in 1968 - it means carry that thing concealed so as not to worry or concern the general populace (my licensing Judge's statement).

In NYS there are 3 different permit categories: Concealed Carry, Hunting and Target Only (local issuing preferance) and Premises. Premises means you can only have the firearm on your property or in your home. Hunting and Target means you carry the firearm only when hunting or target practicing, but many people have carry type pistols or revolvers on those permits and some police agencies do not discriminate between Concealed Carry and Hunting and Target.

When you are afield, neither the permit category or licensing regulations specify that the handgun has to be carried in the open, although this is preferable for quick access, for some.

Ironglow - yep old buddy, that line of thinking has really gone south these days. If you have a concealed weapons permit, conceal it in public less some worry wart sics the heat on ya and causes you problems. Open carry in the field is preferred. I don't know what it is Friend, it's one thing to encounter other hunters in the field when the handgun is concealed, but it seems to be a whole different situation when they see that in addition to a rifle or shotgun you are packin hip heat - just something about that that gives some the indication that you are either very legal and not to be messed with or you've got at least one gun up on them and also not to be messed with. Having a handgun permit places you more than just 'one up' on the average guy and way up on those who ride the edge. Just my opinion though. HTH. Mikey.

ou812 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2004, 04:09:09 AM »

Quote from: rebAL

My permit (Issued in 60's) has no restrictions. What does this mean?

I'm not sure I totally understand your question. I assume that you are talking about a concealed carry permit and not a premisis permit. An unrestricted concealed carry permit means that you can legally buy hand guns in NYS and you carry your handguns concealed (ie. covered up and undetectable by the general public) in all legal places. Daveinthebush outlined some of the places where it is NOT legal to carry. Unless you are hunting, DO NOT try and carry openly or you will likely be arrested for menacing or brandishing a firearm.

Back in the late eighties or early nineties, Judge Mulroy in Onondaga county started issuing permits with the handwritten restrictions "For hunting and target use only", presumably making it illegal for the holders of such permits to carry unless hunting or target shooting. Some judges in other counties picked up on this and started doing the same. That is the difference between 'restricted' and 'unrestricted' concealed carry permits. Permits issued in NYC are a whole other ballgame altogether.

Now, just to muddy the waters a little bit. I have been told by several people including a lawyer that there is no legal mandate in NYS that allows for putting the "hunting and target shooting" restrictions on pistol permits. So in other words there is no legal difference between a restricted and an unrestricted permit.

Hope that answers you question.

Regards,
OU812

ou812 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2004, 04:15:13 AM »

Duplicate post.

rebAL · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2004, 05:04:37 AM »

I mean there are no restrictions mentioned on back, and no mention of concealed or non-cocealed mentioned anywhere. I've always taken this to mean I can carry it anywhere, anytime, anyhow.

NYH1 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2004, 11:22:58 AM »

Check this out. Scroll about half way down the page to "Carrying without a permit/license". See the RED Admin Note

I have some friends that are police officers.....a State Trooper, two Sheriffs and a few Town Clowns! Every one of them told me that you have to carry concealed in New York State at all times, plain and simple. If your hunting and carrying open, chances are nobody will say anything to you, it doesn't mean they can't, they probably just won't. If your walking down the street and a cop sees you.....whether we like it or not you can get in trouble!

http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/new+york

ou812 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2004, 01:18:22 PM »

New York Hunter:

Not trying to start a pissing match over this, but Look at the disclaimer on the packing.org site.

Quote:
The information on this site should be considered "as-is" and is not guaranteed to be accurate in any way...Therefore, it is completely up to the reader to verify ALL information on this site.

Now look at the red admin section that you refer to.

Quote:
Admin Note: Since all handguns are registered in New York, open carry is effectively outlawed (no such license exists carry licenses are to have and carry concealed) and licenses are required for concealed carry, there is no way to legally carry a handgun (concealed or otherwise) in the Empire State.

That very last sentence says there is no way to legally carry a handgun (concealed or otherwise) in the Empire State.

As we all know, that is not exactly accurate info.

You may not agree with me, but as far as Im concerned open carry while hunting is a non-issue, but thats the beauty of it all. Your free to disagree with me, and every one here is free to make their own informed decisions.

Happy Holidays to all
OU812

NYH1 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2004, 03:34:51 PM »

Quote from: ou812

Quote:
The information on this site should be considered "as-is" and is not guaranteed to be accurate in any way...Therefore, it is completely up to the reader to verify ALL information on this site.

They have to write that. The laws change all the time. You can't blame them for this. They also provide links so you can go check the info yourself.

Quote from: ou812

Now look at the red admin section that you refer to.

Quote:
Admin Note: Since all handguns are registered in New York, open carry is effectively outlawed (no such license exists carry licenses are to have and carry concealed) and licenses are required for concealed carry, there is no way to legally carry a handgun (concealed or otherwise) in the Empire State.

That very last sentence says there is no OTHER way to legally carry a handgun (concealed or otherwise) in the Empire State.

As we all know, that is not exactly accurate info.

OU812

They left the word OTHER out, I put it in as you can see its in red. I've read this before and it was like this-
Admin Note: Since all handguns are registered in New York, open carry is effectively outlawed (no such license exists carry licenses are to have and carry concealed) and licenses are required for concealed carry, there is no other way to legally carry a handgun (concealed or otherwise) in the Empire State.

This is what I came up with. I don't take it as gospel. But my friends that are cops (and you yourself basically did to) said the same thing, it has to be concealed! Like I said they do provide the links so you can check it out for yourself! I also got pistol permits in the states of Pennsylvania and New Hampshire and am working on Florida and I got all my info from www.packing.org Everything I've read on their sight has been 100% accurate!

Happy Holidays to you too!

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2004, 03:47:46 PM »

NYH

You bring up another point. You stated that you have permits for other states. I was told that my NYS Concelled Carry is no longer valid as I am not a resident of the state upon my moving to Alaska.

On the other side: Three years ago, after being here two, I bought a NEF Handi at Dicks and used my permit as my Pernament Bradey and they accepted it. Probably commited a crime there but I asked if they would take it and they did.

Maybe what we need is a uniform set of national laws that everyone could follow equally.

ou812 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2004, 04:30:00 AM »

I just contacted the Onondaga county pistol license bureau and was told that while hunting you can openly carry. This really is kind of a gray area that isn't very well addressed. You can probably ask ten different people and get ten different answers.

I look at it like this. A weapon is a weapon is a weapon. If you are allowed to openly carry a long gun while hunting, it is kind of nonsensical that you would be required to carry a handgun concealed.

My thoughts for the day.

Edited to add: The DEC law enforcement officer (I think he said his name was Blant) in region seven agrees that it is legal to openly carry while hunting. That's good enough for me.

Regards,
OU812

Trickyasafox · « **Reply #15 on:** December 15, 2004, 05:29:27 AM »

OU812

can you forward me that contact info? i have to apply for my ccp in onon. county so i could use that number and address :grin:

ou812 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 15, 2004, 05:44:45 AM »

Onondaga County Sheriff's Office
Pistol License Unit
Sheriff's Headquarters Building
407 South State Street
PO Box 5020
Syracuse, NY 13250-5020
(315) 435-2037

rebAL · « **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2004, 05:48:32 AM »

Goes to show -it seems to be up to each individual county & judge. How's anyone expected to know. When I applied back in 60's I was told to say the reason for applying for permit was, "For protection of life & property." I surmise that's why I have no restrictions. Now many if not all issuing agents are saying to put down for hunting & target shooting thereby giving them the right to restrict your permit just for those 2 reasons. I understand they are intimadating applicants NOT to indicate "For protection of life & property" saying they will be denied a permit unless they say for target shooting & hunting just so they can restrict the permit.

ou812 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2004, 05:54:41 AM »

rebAL,

Truer words have never been said. That is part of the reason I'm looking to move out of Onondaga county.

Respectfully,
OU812

ironglow · « **Reply #19 on:** December 15, 2004, 04:07:01 PM »

I guess it's like I first viewed the new "concealed carry" permits.....I believe they are a Trojan Horse...
If the lawman takes a dislike to you no matter what the reason....he/she can maneuver you around until they catch a glimpse of a handgrip etc....then they gotcha...

Raging480 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 16, 2004, 05:56:06 AM »

Two types of permits in NY, premises, and concealed carry. Although I recently heard that a carry permit covers both concealed and non-concealed. But if you are not in the woods, why in the world would you NOT conceal it? "Hey bad guys, here is where I keep my gun, so you can disarm me!" Also, it is not worth alarming the gun-hating types, so in public, I hide it. When in the woods, I could care less.
That whole "hunting and target" restrictions was, in my mind, unconstitutional Bull Excrement. Aren't you glad Mulroy is off the bench?

NYH1 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 17, 2004, 11:54:56 AM »

Quote from: Raging480

That whole "hunting and target" restrictions was, in my mind, unconstitutional Bull Excrement. Aren't you glad Mulroy is off the bench?

Yeah, but the damage has been done! The other judges are still restricting them unless you have a "half way decent reason" to have/need an "unrestricted carry permit". Or know somebody that knows somebody (Oops, did I say that :shock: )!

A while ago I was reading the penal law regarding pistol permits in New York State. I read that in 1995 or 1996 a law was past that you have to have a "REASON" to get a "unrestricted carry permit" and that protection from the "general public" wasn't good enough! I think its still a very big gray area. Most judges interpret it differently! In some counties it easy to get a "unrestricted carry permit" and in others its almost impossible!

rebAL · « **Reply #22 on:** December 17, 2004, 01:51:54 PM »

It was also at about that time that a bill was being considered that would have called in all old (Unrestricted) permits which would have required permittees to renew their permits so they could be restricted. Fortunately that bill failed to pass but it goes to show how fragile our right to bear arms is in NY. The way I see it we're one democrat governor (Spitzer) away from losing our rights. How about that last bill that would have required all permit holders to renew every 5 years at a cost of I think $50. They tried to explain it by claiming it was for national security reasons.

NYH1 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 17, 2004, 02:45:02 PM »

Quote from: rebAL

The way I see it we're one democrat governor (Spitzer) away from losing our rights. How about that last bill that would have required all permit holders to renew every 5 years at a cost of I think $50. They tried to explain it by claiming it was for national security reasons.

I don't think it matters if there is a Democrat or a Republican as Governor. The bill you mentioned referring to the five year renewal was the idea of they, better known as George E. Pataki our friendly Republican Governor! It was both the Senate and assembly that rejected it! Pataki's as anti-gun as they come!

rebAL · « **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2004, 05:28:19 PM »

NYH; You're right about Pataki, but I think we would be worse off with a NYC liberal demorat. We'll never see a social conseervative in NYS thanks to NYC.

ironglow · « **Reply #25 on:** December 19, 2004, 10:40:43 AM »

NYHunter;
I view Pataki as a RHINO...he may as well be a midway Democrat!

Raging 480;

Guess I'm not making myself very plain...
1) Where I live and have held a permit for all these years, I can recall noone that ever got "upset" with my open carry..
Don't have crooks of the type that would try to take my sidearm anyway..

2) Outside of the 10 1/2" Blackhawk I used to have, most were quite concealable, but don't know that I could keep that Blackhawk under the usual jacket and guarantee that noone could ever catch even a passing glimpse of a grip or something!

3) I guess my statement would not be "Why would I not want to carry it concealed?" ..but rather.."Why is it necessary that I carry it concealed?"

Some folks in our goofy society of today, seem to think that they have a right not to be "Offended"!
Sure...and usually those same folks don't mind "offending" hunters, gun owners and Christians...etc..

My "Trojan horse" theory...heretofore, your permit could be lifted if you genuinely misused you handgun...with this new impediment someone only has to "catch a glimpse" of your handgun....or CLAIM they did, and you have trouble...

Easy way to disarm permit holders...