Hiram: I use to shoot alot of Goex, both 2F and Cart. in a 45-70 Shiloh, but have since switched to Swiss. I think if you check you will find many of the top shooters and competitors prefer Swiss. However between Goex 2F and Cart., I could not really tell much differance. If you insist on sticking with Goex here is something you might try. It worked real well for me, while others have had varing results. While shooting Goex I used a 20 percent starter charge of 3F Swiss under the Goex. Example: For a 68 grain load- use 13.5 grs. 3F Swiss under 54.5 grains Goex. This load worked well enough to shoot to 800 yds. and take 3rd place at Quigley year before last. Best regards Steve Witt