Author Topic: Casting from Range reycled lead? (Read 1095 times)

Robert357 · « **on:** December 26, 2004, 10:06:34 AM »

I have been thinking about starting to cast lead bullets, as I shoot lead bullets for certain rifle and handgun loads. I saw a post where this was discussed at the end and so I thought maybe I could learn more from those on this forum.

I talked to the range master and local gun club president, of the club I belong to, about offering a beginning casting course at the range. I also asked about sources of lead including lead from the range. I was told that I could go out to the Trap/Sporting Clays range and rake a couple of hundred pounds of lead shot, if I wanted to during a closed range time.

The range master told me he had once tried to use lead from the rifle range, but it was so contaminated by metal jackets, ocassional military surplus steel bullets and soil embedded into the bullet fragments that it was hardly worth the effort. He suggested the Trap/Sporting Clays range as the lead shot just looses velocity and falls to the ground so there isn't much in the way of embedded dirt and grit.

I was wondering how "typical" lead shot would be as a casting material and what would need to be added to cast best? Folks at are range are not allowed to use "game loads" in their shotguns, just target loads.

Any thoughts comparing trap shotgun pellets as a source of bullet casting lead to say the typically discussed wheel weights? How hard would the shotgun pellet be?

Thanks.

haroldclark · « **Reply #1 on:** December 26, 2004, 01:54:06 PM »

Hey Robert,

I have used recycled lead from different sources. Shotgun pellets being on of those sources. At that time I was shooting mostly cast bullets in Handguns and no rifle loads. It worked fine with nothing added. A little dirt comes to the top and it is not a problem.

I have used a sifter with 1/4" screen to sift out semi-wadcutter bullets and jacketed bullets. Most of the grime breaks loose while sifting from the sand. I started to pick out the jacketed bullets and determined that was nonsence and I just threw everything in the the big pot, melted it and cast it into ingots. With this type of lead with 2% tin added to the melt, I have shot 25 caliber rifle bullets up to 2245 fps with no leading or other problems.

I have used tons of wheelweights that are messy with grease, rubber parts and other debri in the bucket. I add 2 % tin and we are off and running with rifle bullets. Currently, I'm adding 1 pound of Linotype to 3 pounds of wheelweights and it is working fine. However, I'm going to try the 2% tin on my next cast. The tin helps fill out on the sharp edges in the mold.

I have loaded and fired 3,440 cast bullets in rifle cartridges this year so far. As far as lead goes, if it melts, I cast it. Sometimes, I mix lino or tin and sometimes I don't, depending on how the bullets look.

Never turn down a source of free lead. I know there are folks that will disagree with me when I say Lead is Lead with slight differences. If you have a batch in a mix, keep the bullets in a separate container and shoot them all together. Do not mix you bullets from different lead and you will do just fine.

About one third of my shooting each year is cast bullets and I'm trying to make it more.

Harold Clark

Flash · « **Reply #2 on:** December 26, 2004, 02:06:59 PM »

Shot is generally harder than bullet lead but I've used both with great results. Of course the bullet lead will have jackets and dirt but it all floats to the top. Use a cheap aluminum pot and flux it often and you'll be surprised how the quality will improve. The lead shot is the easiest but both that and the bullet lead will work fine for casting.

Nobade · « **Reply #3 on:** December 26, 2004, 02:33:24 PM »

It especially works well if you have an action pistol/ IPSC area at your range. I gather lead on our action pistol berms - those commercial cast pistol bullets that are way too hard to work well at pistol speeds make the nicest rifle bullets! But yeah, I just throw everything in together, melt it into ingots,and go from there. If it's not casting as easily as I like I add a little tin or 50-50 solder, whichever I have handy.

LAH · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2004, 04:54:51 AM »

I'm like Harlod, if it melts and will cast, I shoot it. We use virgin alloy for the customers and I shoot the junk lead, and rejects. Some how I don't feel slighted.

Robert357 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 27, 2004, 09:50:44 AM »

Well this is interestings.

I guess going out to the Trap range and scoping up a couple of buckets of lead shot, for casting, would not be a bad idea prior to starting to cast bullets.

Someone said that shotgun trap pellets are a little harder than many other leads. I do some gas-checked rifle cast lead bullets (does 20 Brindle make sense?, would they be hard enough for this with out any added alloys?

Any idea on how hard shotgun trap pellets might be?

Thanks

haroldclark · « **Reply #6 on:** December 27, 2004, 11:39:38 AM »

Robert,

I think you are referring to 20 Brinnel hardness which is Linotype. Linotype is too hard to shoot in rifles 'cause it can't bump up to fill the bore. I don't recall what the hardness was on the shot, but it was not 20 Brinnel. As I recall, it registered somewhere around 5 or 6 on the Saeco scale.

Linotype, which I have over 300 pounds, has to be mixed with other lead mixtures to make good bullets. I have a Saeco Hardness tester and linotype and it registers at the top of my scale which is "10". That is about equivilent to 20 Brinnel.

I mix linotype and wheelweights or salvage lead at the rate of 1 lino to 3 other lead.

Harold Clark

LAH · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2004, 11:59:48 AM »

Don't take this to the bank but I think most "shot" was a lead-antimony alloy. I could be wrong as I'm drawing from the deepest past of reading material I stored away in my memory.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2004, 12:30:10 PM »

Quote from: Flash

Use a cheap aluminum pot and flux it often and you'll be surprised how the quality will improve.

Please don't. There have been dozens of reports and an NRA advisory that aluminum pots can fail when used for smelting. I used aluminum myself and got away with it before the warning came out, but the mere possibility that the bottom might come out of a pot with 150 pounds of molten lead in it is enough reason for me not to do it.

From memory, shot in the sizes 7.5 to 9.0 will have from 3% or 4% antimony for chilled shot to about 7% in target loads. Range salvage will be somewhere in the middle.

Straight linotype makes excellent rifle bullets and is used by most of the CBA benchrest shooters. They get a lot better fit than most of us bother with. They are also a lot more adept at matching pressure to bullet hardness. I only use straight lino myself when I am going for the higher velocities and pressures. Hard to find and expensive as expensive as it is these days I use most of what I can scounge as alloy material

Duffy · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2004, 05:40:33 PM »

Robert,
Aparently my bro hasn't gotten ahold of you yet.... A good place for casting material is the tire shops. Les Schwab sometimes will sell you old wheel weight and sometimes not. Usually smaller shops are easier to get along with. If you cast straight WW and water drop them they will work fine for your rifle if you use a good lube like LBT Blue. Anytime you see a wheel weight on the street pick it up! Larger ones add up quick and don't worry about dirt, grease, jacket material, it all floats to the top when you melt it down. Just watch out for the new zinc weights, they'll mess up a whole batch of melt real quick. Check metal scrap yards in your area too they really don't like having lead around and will sometimes give a good deal.

bpjon · « **Reply #10 on:** December 27, 2004, 06:26:10 PM »

I melted and cleaned several hundred pound of wheel weights in an aluminum pot I bought for a buck at a thrift shop, well before i heard the warning. After I heard the warning I took a long hard look at my pot, and noticed several large sags or droops in the bottom where it wasn't adequately supported. I won't melt anymore wheelweights until I invest in a decent steel or cast iron pot.

jgalar · « **Reply #11 on:** December 28, 2004, 03:32:35 AM »

I clean wheel weights using an old Coleman stove and a stainless steel pot that I bought at Wal-Mart for $1.47

haroldclark · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2004, 10:30:44 AM »

I have a propane burner used for big seafood pots (crab Pots) and a cast iron pot that will hold about 50 pounds of wheel weights. I know several people who use the cast iron (Bean Pot, so to speak) pot. I have used mine for years and no signs of deteriorations.

Harold

haroldclark · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2004, 10:35:31 AM »

I just had a brain recovery regarding the lead shot. About 5 years ago, a friend gave me a 25-pound bag of new shot. I used it with 2% tin and it worked so well, that I considered buying new shot for casting.

I don't know why I didn't follow up on that. Things like this happen when you get older, so you younger guys might not relate to this phenomenon yet.

Flash · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2004, 11:12:30 AM »

Whoa!!! I never hear any talk about aluminum pots failing and I'm glad I followed this thread. I use an aluminum pressure cooker that's about 1/4" thick and always took for granted that all aluminum was fine. Mine doesn't hold much lead and it never serves to cast from but it will be replaced next season. Thanks fellas!

sgtt · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2004, 07:45:14 PM »

I bought a cast iron pot from Harbor Frieght. $11.00 I believe. Be carefull if you go there........you will end up ordering more. A lot of stuff you didn't even know you wanted/needed.

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** December 30, 2004, 01:48:59 AM »

Once upon a time I tried using a cast iron pot for this purpose. Worked OK for awhile but one day I noticed my lead was fast disappearing. At the time I was using a bed of charcoal to heat it. Now I dunno if this is why it cracked or not but crack it did. Since then I've used only steel to hold it. I now have a pot that was once the lead pot in a linotype machine and that's what I use. I also use a propane burner now and not the left over charcoal from grilling. :eek:

Duffy · « **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2004, 05:30:52 AM »

sggt,
While at harbor frieght did you also pick up the cast iron propane burner and adapter's you needed? :grin: and the earplugs, and welding gloves, and "hey what's that over there?" Hmmm...............

sgtt · « **Reply #18 on:** December 30, 2004, 05:57:05 AM »

Duffy,
I already had all that. I did buy some electronic muffs ($19.95) and a food scale. The scale is actually for food.

MGySgt · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2005, 01:19:14 AM »

For those using Lead Shot - one thing to remember is that to make chilled shot hard and round, arsenic has been added in higher percentages then WW or some of the other alloy we use.

This helps if your are water quenching, but remember to smelt only in a well ventilated area.

I don't think any of our brother casters have died because of the arsenic, but I know some have been made sick by it. Just use good ventilation and all is fine.

Drew

ShadowMover · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2005, 11:50:34 AM »

Everyone knows lead fumes are hazardous, but some of the other things that get melted up are a hazard too. We can get Arsenic from hardened shot, Antimony from wheel weights and Calcium from old car batteries. The bad news happens when you melt them together and clean off the dross and throw it in an old can or pot and it gets wet. It then can give off Arsine gas from the Arsenic, or Stibine gas from the Antimony. The bottom line is: don't melt old car batteries and don't throw the pot dross where you can breath it later. I read this in a gun magazine a few years ago, probably the AR.