Author Topic: New Barrel (Read 977 times)

henry1 · « **on:** December 24, 2004, 07:16:35 PM »

Ok guys, I have decided to turn over my stock and forearm(do i have to send in the screw too?), and send it back to get a 45/70 barrel mounted on it. I am getting the 22" barrel so thats 82.00 plus a fitting fee 15.00, and a shiping and handling fee, 10-20$ Does it cost 10$ for a round trip or does it cost 10 for it to get there and 10 for it to get back? I am FREEKIN OUT! :eek: I am scared to send it out ( i am not really sending it, my dad is) cause then i will not have a varmit gun for a while. I have a shotgun reciver but a .223 barrel or any rifle barrel shouldent be fit on a shotgun reciver, right? Thanks guys for all your help and i just might have more questions later on for you to help me with but that will come later. Thanks in advance and Merry Christmas to you all! Hank.

Oh ya, if for some odd reason to much money was sent would they be considerate enough to send the leftovers back?

hellacatcher · « **Reply #1 on:** December 25, 2004, 03:07:16 AM »

The best thing to do is call H&R at 978-630-8220. They can answer all your questions. You can also go to their site at www.hr1871.com and find the barrel program. Good luck :-)

MSP Ret · « **Reply #2 on:** December 25, 2004, 03:46:01 AM »

Henry1, First of all, Merry CHRISTmas, and second, don't worry about it, I have sent in a receiver (my-45-70) for a couple of new barrels and no problem. I would suggest USPS (post office) Priority Mail with delivery confirmation, insurance is up to you, I did not insure mine but have had good luck with my mail, you might want to insure the receiver/buttstock and forearm to make you feel better. You do not need to send the screw in. While it's there ask them to do a "free" trigger job on the action and tell them it's to darn heavy, also tell them if they are going to charge for it you do not want it, that you want the "free" trigger job. I would not suggest sending in cash, send a check or pay by credit card. If you do send a check and you think it might be to much ask them send you back the difference and an itemized bill. They are very good and will do that. I also suggest you call the Customer service section first and get an exact cost. Any other problems or questions, or anything I can help you out with just direct a post or PM to me and I will do everything I can do to help you out. I live in the same state as H&R so if I can help out with a call to them for you just let me know. And remember, "Don't Worry, Be Happy!!!"....<><.... :grin:

Paul5388 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 25, 2004, 04:39:45 AM »

Henry1,

I have used my .223 barrel on a shotgun receiver. At the present time I have a .357 Mag and a .45/70 on shotgun receivers, so it is possible, if everything fits properly.

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 25, 2004, 05:23:31 AM »

I called customer service Tuesday 12/20 and they said that the factory would be closing the next day for the hoildays and to do inventory. So, don't send in your frame and forend until you find out when there will be someone there at the plant to receive it. I wasn't calling about a return so I didn't ask how long they'd be closed but I got the impression that it'd be after the first before they opened back up.

henry1 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 25, 2004, 09:09:26 AM »

MSP, thanks a bunch, i will contact you if i do need anything.

Hellacatcher, thanks for the advise, i appriciate it.

Thanks for the tip, Cheetermk.

And Paul, I tried to put my .223 barrel on my 20ga reciver and it fit just fine. You cant see any daylight at all between the reciever and the barrel and its verry snug, it doesent wiggle at all on the reciver. It is not hard to close either, it seems to fit fine. So i think i will give it a try. Thanks guys! I am gona try to send it in in a few weeks. Thanks again, Hank.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** December 25, 2004, 09:56:03 AM »

Hank, you can also email H&R, saves the phone call to their answering service which I get frequently. :cry:

hr1871@hr1871.com

henry1 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 26, 2004, 05:46:27 AM »

Cool thanks a bunch Quick, I appriciate it a bunch! :grin:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 26, 2004, 12:41:09 PM »

Excuse me for saying this...but isn't the shotgun receivers heated treated differently than the new SB-2 rifle receivers?...I was told that the shotgun receivers are weaker than any SB-2 rifle receiver...so I would check with NEF before trying to fit a high pressure rifle barrel to any shotgun receiver....for safety sake...even though the may fit up nice and snug...

Mac

Paul5388 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 26, 2004, 12:42:29 PM »

Henry1,

Even though you can't see any light between the receiver and barrel, it might be a good idea to check the actual clearance with an automotive type feeler gauge. With the smallest, about .001", gauge at the top portion of the barrel (away from the ejector) see if you can close and lock the barrel. Use larger feeler gauges until you get a failure to lockup and that will tell you roughly how much clearance you actually have. None of mine will lockup on a .001" gauge, but a .003" would probably be all right. Any clearance will affect the headspace and too much is not good!

Paul5388 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 26, 2004, 12:54:00 PM »

Mac,

The heat treating can't be any worse than what they have been using for 50 years on these rifles. If you will look, the barrel accessory program clearly shows the .223 to be other than a high pressure caliber. If we were talking about a .30-06 barrel, it would be an entirely different situation.

A call to NEF would be a waste of time, since they have made it very clear that they won't put a rifle barrel on a shotgun frame/receiver.

We install used barrels all the time when they say it must be "fitted" at the factory.

dangerranger · « **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2004, 04:10:58 PM »

I have a couple of SB1s and SB2s, the differance seems to be that they are made of differant materials. SB2s are of steel and SB1s are of iron. you may have gotten away with it in the past but its not safe. all rifle cartridges fire at much higher pressures than shotguns. good luck.

fast*eddie · « **Reply #12 on:** December 26, 2004, 04:11:18 PM »

If NEF wouldn't put a rifle barrel on a shotgun receiver, I sure as heck wouldn't take a chance and do it. Sure it fits, but is it safe. tell me you shoot 45 ACPs out of your 44 mag too . Why do something that the company tells you isn't safe unless you plan on being a statistic ! :roll:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 26, 2004, 06:57:29 PM »

Paul:

I'm not a metalurgist,by no means...so I can't tell you what either is made out of...but I can tell you I had a older 30-30...and the receiver wasn't the same as what the new rifle receivers are now...it was case hardend type......in my quest for speed...in those days I took it over to a well known gunsmith I knew at New Line guns here in St.Louis and he said he wouldn't touch it...I wanted to rechamber it to a larger caliber and he told me then the receiver couldn't take the pressure...it was too weak...now ...you can rechamber to within the same specs as the original cartridge...but the shotguns can't and they won't touch them to do...so...just maybe they are too weak...and I'm sorry... I certainly wouldn't want to recommend to anyone to do what your saying is ok to do,without having some kind of verification of the strenght of the receiver first...after all...you can fire several hundred rounds without a mishap...and then...it could only take 1 time to hurt someone...and in real pressure values between the 223 and the 30-06...all you have to do is to look at the Hodgdons Annual manual and you'll see that the 223 has a-lot more 50,000 cup loads than the 30-06 does...5 times more...exacltly 5 for the 30-06 and 27 for the 223...and higher pressure than any of the older rifle barrels that were offered.and yes...I know they offered some back in 97-98 in the 30-06...and the 35 Whelen...and the 444Marlin...and a few others...but these were on a hardened receiver...and this is straight from NEF....so..if it were me...I wouldn't put any of the high pressure barrels on any shotgun receiver...

Mac

Paul5388 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 26, 2004, 08:14:59 PM »

Mac,

We can argue this until the cows come home and still never get to the point of you being able to see that we do many things the factory says is unsafe.

We whittle on the triggers and fit barrels the factory says only they can fit. We shoot NATO 5.56 in a .223 that the factory says, DON'T DO IT! We shoot .357 Magnums that have 46,000 cup (according to Speer #10), that were used on H&R receivers pre-SB1 and SB2 and then we worry about a smaller case than the .357 with a little more pressure. The Models 157 and 148 H&R could be purchased as a shotgun or you could put .22 Jet, .22 Hornet, .30-30, .357 Mag, .44 Mag or .45/70 barrels on it.

The .35 Whelen barrels were put on guns prior to 1999 and they are 52,000 cup loads. Now you can't have a .30-06 at 50,000 cup put on an older receiver that had a 52,000 cup barrel on it. The factory doesn't know what they want, except for you to send your gun back to them for every need, real or imagined.

The bottom line is the .223 Rem has less base area to act on a receiver that is the same dimensions as one with a cartridge with much more base area and almost as much pressure.

However, if it will make you happy, I will say, I don't recommend you follow what I have done, but I have rifle barrels on shotgun receivers and I have used a .223 Rem on a shotgun receiver.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 26, 2004, 09:14:48 PM »

True Paul...we could argue about it...but it really isn't nessasary...like I said...I'm not a metalurgist..but...I have talked with some of the NEF techs...before the company stopped allowing it...and I do know alittle about metal strenght...and if it is made out of iron...or..weaker steel...it really wouldn't be a wise thing to do...now...if you don't worry about it...and God willing never have any problems...that's a good thing...but...I would much rather err on the safe side than to cause someone to have a accident...it's just not worth it...not for the cost of these rifles...and sure...the company says to send your receiver back in to have the barrels fitted on it...they do this not only for liability...but for a function/safety check as well...at least they are suppose to...and since their mating the barrel with an oversized barrel lug...it doesn't take a rocket sceintist to figure out how they mate it up with a little filing here...a little filing there...check the head space and away it goes...but ....that still doesn't mean you can totally disregard their warnings when it comes to the strenght of the receivers...if they were as strong...why wouldn't they replace those other barrels from 97-99 with the newer ones????After all they are in buisness to make money aren't they,and it's quite simple to do it...???It just doesn't make since for them not to...it just doesn't make sense......No...I'll have to go along with them on this one...and take their word on it...

Mac

BIGBOREFAN · « **Reply #16 on:** December 27, 2004, 04:18:15 AM »

What I want to know is: what is the case head thrust on a 45-70 operating at 28,000 CUP and the case head thrust on a 223 at 50,000 CUP. Does any body know of a formula you can use to figure this out. Might be a good question for Fred M.

BBF

Donaldo · « **Reply #17 on:** December 27, 2004, 08:30:29 AM »

Basically what you do is calculate the area in square inches of the case head diameter, which will come out to be about 0.11XX sq. in. on the 223, (if I remember right), multiply it by the operating pressure in lbs/sq.in. The answer is the thrust in pounds against the receiver. FredM will alter this slightly, but this is usually the maximum that you will get. This is assuming no case friction in the chamber, but will give you a good indication of what you are working with. The formula for calculating the case head area is pi (3.1416) x diameter squared (of case head) divided by 4. Or another was is pi x radius squared, in inches. Gives the same answere. I think I got that right, most any math book or dictionary will give you these basic formulas.

henry1 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 27, 2004, 10:49:17 AM »

Thanks to this helpful discusion i have decided not to try it, But my mind still wanders about it. I have to have something to tell my consience, What would really happen if this was to work once and go bad afterwards? Would the reciver blow up? or would the barrel open and spit the case in your face? or would the barrel blow up? What could posibly happen? like i said guys I am NOT gona try using my .223 on my shotgun reciver, but i was just curiose of what could happen. Thanks for saving me from a possible acedent.

I hope none of you are offended by this.

Hank.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** December 27, 2004, 11:03:27 AM »

Worse case scenario would result in injury, but more than likely the end result would be the action would open due to flex/fracture in the frame, and the ejected brass would hit the shooter which in and of itself isn't so bad as it happens enough on new rifles as it is, but the frame flex would probably result in a ruined frame so it wouldn't even work with the original shotgun barrel anymore. You are using good judgement in not even trying it just be on the safe side even though others have done it. What little a new handi would cost certainly isn't worth it. :wink:

henry1 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 27, 2004, 11:08:18 AM »

Thanks quick, i appriciate it. Hank