.38 Special Recoil?

[Mrserenity]

Hi, I'm thinking about purchasing a .38 snub nose.  And someone recommended I practice with light loads to reduce the recoil because of my hand size and stature.  Also, I read about standard pressure and +P.  Can anyone break this down to me?  As far as weight, grain, hollow point or ball?  I think the 38 has weights from 95 to 125?  What is the best load for the least recoil?  and also for defense?  Thanks.

[Questor]

Good questions:
1) Jacketed bullets for 38 special tend to be light. Traditionally this is because 38 special pressures are low and there is some danger of heavier bullets being lodged in the barrel. I don't know how much of a problem that is today, but 110 to 125 grain bullets made for self defense are probably the best options.  

2) Reloads and light loads are available commercially. These are typically in 140 to 160 grain unjacketed lead bullets. These produce less recoil and blast, and therefore encourage practice. They are typically less expensive. However, some makers of some models of revolvers, like the new very light Smith and Wesson revolvers explicitly warn that only jacketed bullets should be used.  Don't ask me why.  

3) +P loads require guns that will handle the extra pressure. That usually means any gun that has been built within the past 50 years by a major manufacturer. The extra pressure isn't that much higher than the standard pressures.  +P cartridges will usually fire bullets a bit faster than standard cartridges. I'm guessing 50 to 100 feet per second in a 38 special snub nose.

4) Your hand size and stature have little to do with your recoil tolerance. The guns really don't recoil that much if you look at it objectively. However, it can take a while to get used to the idea of something going "bang" at an arm's length. Learning to shoot involves developing the understanding and belief that the gun won't hurt you when you fire it. In my case, for example, recoil isn't much of an issue, but noise is. It took quite a while to get used to the noise.

5) Not all ammo is equal. There are qualitative differences between them. For example, one brand may have a lot of flash when the shot goes off. Others won't flash very much. This can affect your shooting as it may be disturbing to see a lick of flame shoot out the gap between the cylinder and the barrel.


6) Fortunately much of the ammo for 38 special today is developed with the snub nose revolver in mind. Check out the less expensive jacketed bullets made by Blaser, PMC, Federal American Eagle, and Winchester white box, and I don't think you can go wrong.

[Savage]

Easy answer to practice and carry loads; practice with Winchester White Box and carry Gold Dots. If recoil is an issue, stay away from the airweights and Titaninum models. A Ruger SP101 is a bit larger and heavier than the Taurus and Smith snubbies, but it's rugged as hell and there is a lot less felt recoil. It has been debated that one of the best defensive loads from a snubbie is wadcutters or semiwadcutters. These rounds typically weigh for 148grs to 158grs. They don't rely on high velocities or expansion to be effective. The recoil from any of these pistols is insiginificant with standard velocity loads. My little woman manages quite well with her mdl 36.
Savage

[ed1921]

If your .38 is all steel recoil won't be much of a problem. If it is an airweight alloy gun +p ammo can get pretty snappy.
Learn how to shoot it by starting with wadcutter ammo. It has next to no recoil & blast & you can concentrate on learning to handle it properly & not develop a flinch.
While not advertised much I've read the 158 grain HP semi-wadcutter +p is the best self defense ammo in .38.
Questor hit all the main points pretty well.
BTW- A snub nose is probably one of the hardest revolvers to shoot well. Not a bad choice for self defense though.

[Tacoma]

Ed hit on a good point.  38 snubbies run from  about 11 oz all the way up to 35+oz as you get into larger frames.  If your speeking strictly J frame S&W's the range is closer to 11-25 oz with most of the common all steel ones in the 19-23 oz range.
Speeking from my experience with an even dozen  assorted .38/ 357 snubbies, I find that these all steel guns  , with proper fitting grips , tend to be much more pleasurable to shoot with anything above target velocity ammo. The trade off of course is weight.  i.e You'll like carring a 12 oz scandium 342 or a 15 oz 442 more . However, those few shaved onces will be missed when your practicing at the range.
Also FWIW, My personal favorites are a S&W mod 49 and a S&W 640

[Vern Humphrey]

The most common recoil problem is the trigger guard rapping your middle finger.  The cure is a grip that partially fills the space between the frame and trigger guard -- almost all new .38 revilvers have such grips.  If yours doesn't, you can either replace the grip or get a Tyler T-Grip (which does the same thing with the original grip.)

If you were asking my advice about which gun to get, I'd say take a good look at the Ruger SP101, with the 3 1/16" barrel.  This is a solidly-made .357 Magnum that handles recoil well, and is much easier to shoot than the more traditional 2" barrel.

You can shoot .38 specials all day in a .357 (probably more .38 specials are fired in such revolvers than .357s).   And as you gain practice and confidence, you may find that a 125-grain .357 load is perfectly comfortable in this revolver, and that gives you a real advantage.

[Badnews Bob]

Ditto what Vern said, get a .357 my carry gun is a Ruger security six snubbie its a little heavy but you can't hurt it. I shoot .38s in it all the timebut I carry it with 170gr FN gold dots, you don't want to get hit with one of those and they are violent to shoot, .38 wadcutters thou are just plain fun to shoot and very accurate even out of a snubbie.

[Old Griz]

:cb2: A few years ago I think Federal made a .38 Nyclad load which was a lead hollowpoint, with a clear nylon coating (jacket?), that was designed to expand with the low velocities generated by a snubnosed .38. Does anyone know if they still make these? The only true .38 I own is a 4" M10. All my others grew up to be .357 K-frames.

Now the Mrs. runs around with a SP101, and I have to agree with Vern and Savage—if I were getting a small snubbie, that would be the one.

(Because of the frame size, I hate to call my 2.5" M19 a snubnose. It's a real gun with a short barrel!)

[Mikey]

Old Griz:  the Nyclads aren't made anymore because someone thought they could bust through body armor and become cop killers.  Oh well, they sure kept the barrel from getting dirty though.

Mr. Sereenity:  What recoil ?  The best load for a 38 snubnose is a 200 gn semi-wadcutter over 3.8 grains of WW231 for 770'/sec (from a 6' bbl, probably) and only about 700'/sec from a snubbie.  But, you asked about pressures - Winchester Plus P factory loads run to the 19K psi mark with 110-125 gn loads but the velocity from a snubby wouldn't be so hot although the pressure and attendant recoil, not to mention the 'bark', would be evident.  The 200 gn load mentioned above is a 15.5K psi load, and shoots easy.  If recoil is the most important issue for you and you intend to carry a 38 snubby, you can always carry wadcutters - that 148 gn flat nosed slug at 700-800'/sec is good for belly work, skippin' cans, target work and small critters what need dispatchin'.  Also, some of the reloading manuals will let you know right out that only a fool would be willing to step in front of one of those wadcutters, and since you would have at least 5 of them - well, nuff said.  Mikey.

[Old Griz]

:cb2: Nyclads as cop killers? Wow! That ranks up there with the Black Talons being "spinning buzzsaws of death" whose "razor sharp teeth" made it almost impossible for doctors to remove without cutting themselves. Mother McCree. What was the asinine rationale behind banning the deadly Nyclads? I don't understand how flattening out at such slow speeds would make it prone to penetrate a bullet proof vest?

(Sorry—I know this must be very old news, but it's the first I've heard of it.)

[De41mag]

Mrserenity;

I have a Taurus Mod. 85 Ultralite, aluminum frame. I have a box in front of me, of the Federal Preminum Personal Defense in 38 Special. They are what I carry in the little gun. They are 110 grain JHP's. They say on the box, high energy, low recoil. Haven't fired any of them yet. Kind of expenisive.
But for shooting at the range with the Taurus, I buy the Winchester 100 round Value Pack 130gr. FMJ's. The recoil is not bad at all. You can get the Value Pack at Wally World for about $17.00/100.
Hope this helps.

Dennis  

[leverfan]

I have a Taurus Mod. 85 Ultralite, aluminum frame. I have a box in front of me, of the Federal Preminum Personal Defense in 38 Special. They are what I carry in the little gun. They are 110 grain JHP's. They say on the box, high energy, low recoil. Haven't fired any of them yet. Kind of expenisive.

I've shot those out of the heavier steel Taurus 85CH, and also a S&W 442.  They are very pleasant to shoot.  The relatively new Speer 135 grain load, made just for snubbies, sure looks good, if you want to limit recoil.  I handload Speer 146 grain semi-jacketed hollow points for my 3" S&W 60.  Those are pretty good bullets.