Author Topic: 410 for deer hunting? (Read 2113 times)

AFISHN · « **on:** October 12, 2004, 02:56:00 PM »

I recently had knee surgery and find it difficult to tote my 20 or 12 ga shotgun for deer hunting.
I thought I might try my H&R single shot 410 with a 1/4oz slug.(I can't climb a tree stand because of the knee so I will have to still hunt or set up ambush spots on the ground

ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE/OPINIONS ABOUT THIS? :?
Sufficient killing power?
Expected groupings?
Killing ranges?
Best ammo?
Any other advice?

savageT · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2004, 03:13:48 PM »

AFisn,
Hey, I don't know what state in these 50 you're in but I believe a .410 cal. shotgun ain't legal to use for big game (didn't know you could even find a slug for that gun?

? Now, do I think they'll kill deer?......sure, well people been known to jack 'em with .22 rimfire.
Jim

Woodbutcher · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2004, 03:41:44 PM »

Would it be sensible to compare blackpowder rifle or handgun ballistics to this question? Weight of the projectile and velocity seem to be comparible, close range, 50 yards or so, why not? 1400 fps muzzle, and what's a 410 slug weigh, more than a 45 cal ball, right. Why not? Lotsa frontstuffers really like the 45. What's the energy at 50 yards?
Since you're not going to be stomping around much, you probably won't be making a lot of noise, this is good for being close. And range is the issue, isn't it? Woodbutcher

MSP Ret · « **Reply #3 on:** October 12, 2004, 03:47:20 PM »

afishn, how much heavier is a Pardner or Topper with a 20 gauge barrel than a .410 barrel? not much, a few ounce's maybe? I personally don't think a .410 slug is an ethical deer round, will it kill a deer, yes, should you hunt deer with it, no, not if you don't have to, legal or not. Stick with the 20 and a good slug.....<><.... :grin:

DaveH · « **Reply #4 on:** October 12, 2004, 04:03:38 PM »

Hey MSP Ret,
Actually I think my Tracker II 12 ga is lighter then my NEF .410. There is a heck of allot more metal at the chamber on the .410 barrel then there is on the 12 ga. I don't know about other states but here is what the Md hunting regs say about shotgun used for deer hunting.

Deer hunters using shotguns must use a pumpkin ball, rifled slug or sabot. Buckshot may not be used to hunt deer except in Dorchester County, where #1 size buckshot or larger may be used. The use of shotguns smaller than 20 gauge for deer hunting is not permitted.

muzzleblast525 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2004, 05:03:36 PM »

AFISHN,

Grew up in Louisiana and started hunting with .410 slug for deer. Dad didn't think a kid of 8 should have anything else a the time. Anyway, killed several deer with this gun, but its all about shot placement and keeping shots to a minimum. Of course that has been about 30 some odd years ago, and it was smoothbore shooting smooth slug. With rifled barrels and such these days, might be able to put a little more distance on it.

As far as ethical, you have to decide. Not wanting any pushing match or anything, but I hear several people arguing this point and that, and everybody has an opinion on something. Heck, last year I hunted deer in Texas with my 22-250. Kept my shots at about 100 yards and got 3 deer, all one shot kills and deer fell within sight. Would I hunt big deer up north with this gun, probably not. But again, you must decide that issue.....Good Luck!

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2004, 05:49:29 PM »

Sorry but I'd rather take a camera instead. A .410 for deer is an insult to the animal.

BuzzKill · « **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2004, 07:18:43 AM »

There are some States that do allow 410 slugs for deer. I want to say Indiana and Iowa, near me both allow the 410 slug. Don't quote me on Iowa or your home state, please check local regs. I know I have seen similar loadings from Winchester and Remington that send a 410 slug out around 1800 fps. The muzzle energy, at least, is better than many 357, 40 S&W, and comparable hand gun loads. The ME is also near to some 41 rem. mag ME's. Ok, that is the good part, the bad is that this is due to a much smaller bullet simply traveling at a faster speed. Therefore, the 410 slug probably has worse penatration, momentum and ballistics beyond the muzzle than those calibers listed above. I would seriously shoot 50 yds or even less, as the energy really drops off. I would rather shoot a 410 slug anyday over 12 ga buck shot. All in all, it is about shot placement and distance. Most deer are probably shot under 40 yds anyway. If the gun is lighter, go for it.

MTNMAN · « **Reply #8 on:** October 13, 2004, 07:55:27 AM »

All the full size Pardners weigh 5-6lbs no matter what the gauge, all youth models 5 - 5.5lbs No Matter what the gauge .... like someone here said we're talkin' ounces in weight between the different gauges... Anyone check on the ballistics some of the 3" .410 slugs???...MTNMAN

shaner · « **Reply #9 on:** October 13, 2004, 09:44:23 AM »

here in ohio its legal , i know of 5 deer takin in the last few yrs with 410' slugs , they do work up to a point , that point is yardage dont push them to far and yu will be fine head shots work great as i did this to a doe 2yrs ago with a 410 dropped her right where she stood

brown-trout · « **Reply #10 on:** October 13, 2004, 11:56:13 AM »

...ive got a 10 year old daughter who is going on Ohio's youth hunt this year (2 days, kids only, statewide , any legal means of taking deer...firearms, bow, etc..)
i got her a youth pardner in 20........ported barrel myself, added a pound of lead to the stock , added a tru-glo bead sight and added a pad to raise the comb of the stock. it should work for her.
i thought about 410 but decided against it...they are legal here in Ohio, but the lethality of the 410 slug is called into question, in my mind.
using "big green's" 410 slug data, here is what i got.....
an 88 grain lead foster type slug with a mv of 1830 fps.....this gives you 650 ft/lbs at the muzzle and 350 ft/lbs at 50 yards.
lets use that 350 figure at 50...fairly typical id assume......thats 350 with a less than optimum projectile......they work GREAT in 12 gauge..nothing finer, but i have to think that when you get down below 400 ft/lbs the slug has all the penetration characteristics of a slug made of Play-Doh .
Remember the ammo makers can make no assumptions regarding choice of chokes , so they are intentionally soft.
=====================================
this is just my 2 cents.....im no bigger is badder mega caliber nut.....I love the 270 Win in any configuration, but i think a 20 is a better choice.
bt

HuntenNut · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2004, 12:32:59 PM »

brown-trout,

how did you do the porting yourself?

Markus · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2004, 04:36:53 PM »

Do you already have a 410 ? What are the 12 and 20 ga guns you already have? I'd stick with a 20. It doesn't wiegh any more and is enough to cleanly and humanely take a deer. They made 410s legal for deer in Delaware again last year but I don't know any one using one. What range shots will you take most likely?

brown-trout · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2004, 05:07:30 PM »

.....not too difficult.....stuck it in a vise, drilled twelve 5/32" holes in groups of four in the last 4" of the barrel. then I honed out the interior surface of the barrel to remove any remaining burrs.

im sure the folks at magna port would cry foul, and say 'taint safe' bu tmy machinist background in things far worse than rifle barrels tells me otherwise....

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #14 on:** October 14, 2004, 01:37:22 AM »

It ain't a trick I would try.

I learned long ago that advertised velocities are rarely confirmed by a chronograph.

This has come up from time to time and some pretty good handloaders have had a go at it. The factory slug is just plain too light, and the Handi .410 is too heavy for there to be any real advantage.

AFISHN · « **Reply #15 on:** October 17, 2004, 02:42:04 AM »

After reading all the posts and checking the weight on some of my other slug guns,I realize it is not the way to go from ethical and ballistic considerations .

So decided to go with a 20 gauge single shot slug gun,I recently bought for my 15 yr old son:using it when he isn't using it during the week.

21mtr · « **Reply #16 on:** October 24, 2004, 04:14:42 AM »

.410 is plenty to shoot a deer. I've done it a couple of times. I would limit the max shot to 50yds.

Gowge · « **Reply #17 on:** October 24, 2004, 06:31:44 AM »

Quote from: AFISHN

I recently had knee surgery and find it difficult to tote my 20 or 12 ga shotgun for deer hunting.
I thought I might try my H&R single shot 410 with a 1/4oz slug.(I can't climb a tree stand because of the knee so I will have to still hunt or set up ambush spots on the ground

ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE/OPINIONS ABOUT THIS? :?
Any other advice?

I have an opinion, and some suggestions...

Like the other guys who suggested it's not ethical or practical, I agree 100%. The sights on a 410 are not adequate to shoot much past 40 yards, and the teeny little (factory) slug just doesn't have much power at all.

This said, it's possible to HANDLOAD some very effective slugs that WILL KILL a DEER with NO problem.

With the right CHOKE - or even lack of a choke, you can safely use CAST hollow based bullets made for the old 41 Long Colt. These bullets are NOT 41 caliber or even close to .410 slug diameter, being well under .400" diameter. What is so good about them, is they're available in a practical and useful weight range from about 180gr to 200gr+ that corresponds to heavy shot loads for a .410 - we're talkin' 1/2oz to over 5/8oz. ANY shot load recipe that's safe to shoot in a 410 is also safe with a slug of the same weight. WE have learned that solid slugs of the same weight as shot - and especially buffered shot, produces a much lower pressure peak than most realize.

ABOVE: 180gr ~ .387" diameter hollow base bullet

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/heelbullets.htm

The article on the link above describes some of the 41 Colt bullets and loading techniques for revolvers. IF you have any ideas about deer hunting with a 410 shotgun, you should investigate having someone custom load a few slugs for you to try out.

Here's a link to a website that shows how easy it is to load 410 slugs in plastic hulls yourself.

http://dougs410slugs.wxs.org/

I don't advocate using the tiny slugs shown on this page - the 41 Colt bullets would be far more useful IMHO.

http://www.4-10.freeuk.com/suppliers.html

The link above lists some 410 Shotgun Resources & Suppliers - Ballistic Products has all the components you need to load your own and will be pleased to send you a new catalog of their products.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/410.php

Alliant offers a dedicated 410 powder on the link above, but they only list loads for skeet or target shooting - not really useful...

For something interesting, check the loads on this link below and then compare that 14.5gr of 2400 powder to a known rifle or pistol cartridge shooting a similar weight bullet... Pressures in a 410 don't top 13000psi according to Alliant. It would be even less with a slug instead of a heavy shot load.

http://recipes.alliantpowder.com/rg.taf?_function=shotgun&step=1&_function2=setJavascriptFlag&gauge=410&guntypeID=

Just my opinion, but a 410 with a stiff (hand)load, shooting a 1/2oz slug can push along at a velocity from a smoothbore barrel that will surprise a whole lot of people. It's still a smoothbore and not really accurate beyond about 40-50 yards, but the power it can generate will impress.

GOOD LUCK!

http://www.huntingtons.com/Bullet-WhiteHorse.html

http://missoula.bigsky.net/western/cbip/b41l.html

single shot shooter · « **Reply #18 on:** November 11, 2004, 05:12:11 AM »

Quote from: savageT

AFisn,
Hey, I don't know what state in these 50 you're in but I believe a .410 cal. shotgun ain't legal to use for big game (didn't know you could even find a slug for that gun?? Now, do I think they'll kill deer?......sure, well people been known to jack 'em with .22 rimfire.
Jim

many companies make the .410 slugs.

winchester, federal and remington make 2 1/2" and brenekee makes 3" slugs

as for how they shoot i dont know because ive never shot any but i got about a dozen boxes ofem laying around here somewhere. maybe i'll shoot some out of my rossi and see what happens (with an open choke of corse) wonder if you could shoot them from a 45/410?

50 Calshtr · « **Reply #19 on:** November 15, 2004, 04:55:17 AM »

If you're worried about your knee use a 12 or 20 Ga. With the 410 you'll wear out that knee trying to track down that wounded deer that would have dropped a lot sooner with a heavier slug.

shaner · « **Reply #20 on:** November 18, 2004, 12:11:03 PM »

if yu can get a copy of shotgun sports magizine oct , 03 an guy did a whole article on 410 slug shooting , they say is a good round for deer size on down , real good article he did u may be able to go to their web page and get in from the arcives ?

Gowge · « **Reply #21 on:** November 18, 2004, 10:33:52 PM »

This link will take ya' to the Shotgun Sports Magazine back issues. http://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com/back_issues.html

Here's a Guns Magazine article on 410 too. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_49/ai_100727291

The Huntington's Bullet listed above (WH120 41 Long Colt-200 gr.-Hollow Base ) is a pure lead version with a .390" diameter.

GOOD LUCK!

hunter01 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2005, 03:28:56 PM »

Quote from: AFISHN

I recently had knee surgery and find it difficult to tote my 20 or 12 ga shotgun for deer hunting.
I thought I might try my H&R single shot 410 with a 1/4oz slug.(I can't climb a tree stand because of the knee so I will have to still hunt or set up ambush spots on the ground

ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE/OPINIONS ABOUT THIS? :?
Sufficient killing power?
Expected groupings?
Killing ranges?
Best ammo?
Any other advice?

You'll struggle being accurate with that gun but my wife has killed deer with her 410 at 80 yards. It's a 1400 fps bullet. You will have the power to kill a deer under 100 yards but I'd strongly suggest mounting a scope on there (drill and tap?) If you don't you're throwing stones with a bead on the end of a smooth bore bird barrel. Good Luck and write back if you have anymore questions.