Author Topic: best 243 bullet for good blood trail? (Read 2173 times)

icthus153 · « **on:** December 22, 2004, 02:36:26 PM »

hey all , i got my 5th deer with my handi yesterday and i have a question. what do you think is the best bullet for a good blood trail? i have hunted with a 270 and 30-30 for years and always took shoulder shots but even if i hit behind the shoulder there was always a good trail. i am shooting the remington core lok 100 grain and it is dropping them within 50 yards ( the other 4 only went 20 -30 ) but most are not pass thrus and the one that was the exit hole was as small as the entrance hole . i am thinking about a 95 gr ballistic tip to see if that will open up the hole a little more. what do yall think? all of our deer are small to medium sized ( i killed my 2 biggest does this year 101 and 102 dressed ) i like dropping them quick but if they run i want a good trail to follow. any thoughts will be appreciated :wink:

Broken-arrow · « **Reply #1 on:** December 22, 2004, 02:51:02 PM »

Try the Sierra 85 gr. Game-king HPBT, No blood trail necessary. :wink:

jimbobfish · « **Reply #2 on:** December 22, 2004, 02:59:08 PM »

Read this study. It is very informative on bullet placement and style.

http://www.scilowcountry.org/cedar_knoll_deer_study.htm

Broken-arrow · « **Reply #3 on:** December 22, 2004, 03:33:04 PM »

That's a really interesting and informative survey, fish, thanks for the link. Anyone who even thinks about hunting deer should check it out.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #4 on:** December 22, 2004, 03:36:04 PM »

I like that Remington core-loct 100 gr. I have never had one in 243 that didn't perform as I expected. I am not a big fan of pass throughs when gun hunting. That is what most bowhunters want, but in a gun if the bullet expands and stops on the off side of the animal then it has done its job. A deer may run a short distance when you put that 243 bullet high in the lungs but it is running dead. a well constructed 80-95 gr. bullet should do just as well, but my grandson balks at changing from those core-locts. He has 6 deer with them and his NEF handi. But I think you all know that by now

JPH45 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 22, 2004, 04:16:15 PM »

I agree with broken-arrow, that is a great link. The author seems a bit dismayed (if that's the proper word) that there is a huge fall off in hits between 125 and 150 yards. Says a lot about the common practice range of 100 yards. It also says a lot about range estimation. I don't mind admitting, that past 100, I have difficulty telling what is what. I know the ranges in the area i hunt, I walk that land all the time. Take me off that land, I can't accurately tell you anything past 100. Also says alot about bullet choices, Hmmmmmm......Speaking to me?

? :wink: Interesting figures on the .25 is this a result of caliber or is it a result od people who shoot odd calibers tend to be more familiar with their rifle? The things that make you go Hmmmmmmmm...........................

handirifle · « **Reply #6 on:** December 22, 2004, 04:50:04 PM »

While on an elk hunt this October, one of my hunting buddies took a shot that I don't think I would have. The elk was headed downhill fast but about 20yds away. The problem was the very thick brush only allowed glimpses of the elk, at least for me.

My friend took a snap shot at the running bull and we were NEVER sure if he hit it. He was using 150gr round nose bullets in his 270 BAR.

My other hunting buddie took a cow 2 years ago in the same area with his own 270, same load (factory). He shot once at the rear of the rib cage (broadside) and once more in the neck. As you might have guessed, the neck shot dropped her. Range was about 35yds. Neither shot passed through.

My point, is the in the case of the snap shot at the bull, a hit with a caliber/bullet combo that would pass through would have told a very definite story of whether or not it was hit.

In the case of the bull, we trailed it for several hundred yards, with no sign of a hit at all, but left never knowing for sure if it was indeed a hit. Not the way I like to hunt. I am not cutting a 270 at all, just saying a pass through, in my opinion can be a very good thing.

icthus153 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 22, 2004, 10:55:44 PM »

thanks for the replys , that was an excellent read fish, a lot of good stuff in there. i will let you know if i find my "holy grail" bullet :wink:

flintlock · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2004, 06:21:17 AM »

icthus...I have had my .243 since 1980..Used CoreLokts for about 15 years...started trying different bullets about 1995...have used all of the domestic loading on deer...except for ballistic tips...For some reason ballistic tips just don't group well in my Ruger M-77...

I have been amazed at the how different bullets in the same caliber react when they hit a deer...Makes me wonder how many guns are traded each year because of deer running off...so the guy buys a bigger gun..instead of changing loads..I killed 5-6 deer with each load before I would establish my opinion on that bullet...In my opinion the "perfect" bullet will exit on broadside lung shots...and penetrate both shoulder blades (and be found under the hide)on a shoulder shot...This gives you some leeway on those quartering away shots...I did notice that the "softer" bullets would drop a deer quicker than the "harder" ones...even if they didn't exit on lung shots...I tried to take deer at a variety of ranges...because the faster a bullet is going, the faster it expands...

I would classify the CoreLokts, Hornadys, Nosler Partitions and the Grand Slams in 100gr soft points as "harder bullets"...the Hornadys, Partitions and Grand Slams would almost always exit even on a shoulder shot...lung shot deer would usually go 50-80yards...but...you had a good blood trail...

The Federal Premium and Classic loadings in their 100 gr Soft Point Boattail and Flat base, and both Winchester loads in their PowerPoints...are "softer bullets"...they usually don't leave an exit...even on lung shots...until you start to get past 150 yards...but, the deer don't go more than 40-60 yards when hit in the lungs with these...often they go less than 30...all of these bullets are "hard" enough to get through the shoulder...of course they drop when this happens...but they don't always go through the off shoulder blade...

The load I am currently using is the Federal Premium 85gr BTHP...Between me and 2 buddies we have killed 25 deer with in the last 3 years...this bullet will exit on lung shots...and will go through both shoulder blades...unless the deer is extremely close...It is harder than most hollow points and actually penetrates a couple of inches before it rapidly opens up...soft points start to open up as soon as they hit the deer...the 85grs actually penetrate more than the "softer" loadings that I mentioned before...

Sorry for the long post...hope you can tell that I did a lot of research over the last 24 years....the short answer, for an exit wound go with the Federal Premium 100gr Nosler Partition, the Hornady 100 gr soft point, Federal Premium 100gr Speer Grand Slam...or the Federal Premium 85gr Sierra Game King BTHP...

aulrich · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2004, 07:10:48 AM »

That study was an interesting read definitely points to marksmanship as one of the areas to be improved on. The data seems a bit confusing though, average is such a misleading concept because 125-150 is still well within most rifles point blank range. The mean value (the value where half are below and half are above) would be more informative I would venture that most of the misses were at a longer range and a few close misses wrecked the average.

Another spot is the bullet type, chances are there was not enough of a sample to make a complete study but it does stand to reason that a bullet that is a little too "soft" is better than a bullet that is a little too "hard" at least to a point. And that said, seeing that South eastern deer are on the smaller side determining what is too soft is a moving target is yu try to interpolate to where you live.

It would have been neat to see the regular to premium comparison separated out across the bore sizes. My SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) is that as the bore sizes got bigger the harder bullets would be come more of a problem.

I think the velocity differences are just to much, a bullet that would work good in a 300 win mag maybe a dog in a 308 win at least in a smaller animal that gives less of an opportunity to expand.

As for the perfect hunting bullet for a 243 I have not found one yet. But I have only taken one deer with mine and that was with factory 100 gr loads and at that it was a small doe and it did not exit. it was a frontal shot but the bullet did not pass into the guts but the lungs were all mush.

Despite what the study says I have been hearing good things about the barnes triple shock and I will try those for next year. It's not that I am fussy I just want violent expansion and an exit wound (at least on a straight rib shot) and it sounds like they provide that. That and where I hunt the deer are bigger so I want a slightly harder bullet to start with.

But with all I have been hearing about the 85gr Sierra Game King BTHP it's still on the list of bullets to try.

Joel · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2004, 08:12:03 AM »

I've shot 18 deer with my Ruger #1 in 6mm Rem; 17 using Nosler 100 gr partitions and one using 100 gr Remington corelokts. Only reason I used the corelokts was because I hadn't shot the ruger at deer in 14 years since I started using my Handi in 45/70; felt quilty and so bought two boxes of the Remington facotory, since I didn't have much left in the way of cases/powder. The Noslers ranged from the "old" 100 gr semi spitzers to the new fangled partitions they use now. Never had to theorize much about penetration or expansion; the Noslers do what they are known to do.....both. Never had a deer run far after being hit, and always had a easy blood train to follow. A shot in the lungs meant very little, if any, bloodshot meat since the Nosler folks aren't lying about their controlled expansion.
Last year I shot a huge buck that was trotting past me at about 30 yds with the corelokts. I'd gotten to feeling guilty about not using that beautiful Ruger and bought two boxes of Rem factory 100 gr. When I shot, I saw him flinch before he went into high gear and disappeared into the mountain laurel. I strolled down to where I'd shot him figuring on an easy track, and there wasn't a drop of blood anywhere. Since I was positive I'd hit him, I just started walking in the direction he had ran, and about 200 yds later saw him sitting with his head up, dying slow. Never did see any blood. He was bleeding out obviously, but very slowly. Walked close to him and shot him in the heart as he started to rise, and he STILL wouldn't die! Finally shot him in the head...couldn't take any more of his dying so slow. NONE of those cokelokts had expanded. The first one had gone through his shoulder at the joint and then into the lungs, just above the heart. The second had nicked the heart, and the third had gone through his ears. All three were 6mm going in and coming out. I now have those 6mm cases loaded with Noslers for my next guilt trip hunt with the Ruger. It may just be me, but I"ve never shot any remington factory ammo that was worth a darn in my rifles, although after my initial bad experiences with them, I never used them much unless that was the only brand I could get; and never used any factory ammo of their or other makes after I started handloading. They sell a lot of the stuff, so it must work for others. In my case, 400 gr flat noses at 1750 fps have a reassuring sound to it.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #11 on:** December 23, 2004, 08:31:38 AM »

I've never had a core-loct 243 go thru a shoulder, into the lungs, then exit. Guess we learn something everyday.

jimbobfish · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2004, 10:35:28 AM »

I have had excellent results using factory Hornady SST's. This is both in my .243 and .270. I tried the core-lokt's, PP's and noslers partitions. None left a good blood trail and deer would move off after hit, some up to 100yrds. Since the switch to SST's, two of 9 have moved over 10yrds. The others droped in thier tracks.

I shot a nice 9 point Saturday evening at 394yrds (lazed). He made three steps and fell over dead. Until these bullets quit working I am sold!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2004, 12:31:52 PM »

A study is just that...a study... and one study doesn't make it fact...and as has been said...there wasn't enough different bullets to make a complete sampling of each type...in grouped them all in 1 catagory as opposed to 1 other type ...and all it shows is in that paticular region at that paticular time...did those paticular bullets work...in that paticular manner.. by those paticular hunters....change any of the variables and you will will skew the results...the one thing I did see with it though ...it reinforces somes beliefs that taking a shoulder shot with a "explosive" bullet will drop them in their tracks...without regaurd to meat loss.....and...this might not be a bad thing in all places...especially when hunting on very crowded public land where you could loose your deer to another hunter,or where you are unable to track it because of the terrain...... and it is something I will keep in mind ...but...if the deer runs off less than 100 yards leaving a blood trail a blind man could follow...I would much rather harvest one like that...than to throw out a whole shoulder........so...I would rather use a Nosler Partiton...or a Barnes Triple Shock...a HornadyInterbond, or a Nosler Accubond...or any other type bullet that will readily expand at the ranges I'm hunting...and hold together and pass on thru...leaving a good blood trail...thats just my preference...and as shown...both ways do work...

Mac

targetguy · « **Reply #14 on:** December 23, 2004, 05:49:05 PM »

I shot 7 deer this year with my 308. 5 whitetail does, 1 mule deer buck, and 1 mule deer doe. 3 were shot with hornady 165 grain intrelocks, and 4 with 165 speer grand slams. all bullets exited with ranges from 25 to 280 yards. The closest deer, the Mule deer buck was shot in the shoulders with the grand slam, it traveled 20 yards. I also shot a cow elk at 260 yards with the 165 grand slam. The bullet hit right behind the shoulder and punched both lungs and exited. The elk went about 30 yards in knee deep snow (my knees). The results of my shoting this year showed that the grand slam had much less meat damage and bruising around the bullet hole, however the deer seemed to go a little further. 1 deer was hit high in the lungs and went about 300 yards. Next year I plan on shooting a doe with my .243 and an 85 grain X bullet. I cant wait for next years season, I guess I'll have to pacify my self with ground squirrels and prarie dogs

Mac11700 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 23, 2004, 05:54:32 PM »

targetguy...was your GrandSlam load for your 308 a factory loaded...or one of your handloads???I got a box of the 150 grain GS bullets to try out...and aught to get a little bit better velocity out of them than the 165's...

Mac

ThunderStick · « **Reply #16 on:** December 27, 2004, 04:24:04 PM »

I have shot a .243 Win. or 6mm Rem. for my whole life. From ground hog hunting to deer hunting, I have been more than pleased with this cal. of rifle.
I have used the 100gr. corelocked bullets for deer hunting for years and only lost one deer,(450 yard shot, won't be taking this long of shot again.) due to streching the limits of the cartrige, not the bullet.
Just this morning I shot two deer with one of my 100gr CL loads. Both where just inside 100 yards, behind the shoulder lung shots. Both deer ran less than 50 yards. Bullets passed through with a blood trail a blind man could follow. I love this bullet placment because of the very small amount of meat it waste, and it has always been death within 50 yards!
I think with the .243 marksmanship plays a very large role in your hunting sucess reguardless of the bullet chosen. My son killed his first, by my self, deer this fall with a NEH .243 ultra rifle using Winchester white box factory loads. This was also a picture book perfect take down.

Now as a side note. I am going to try the Sierra Game King 85 gr hp in the comming year. I hope the Handi rifle shoots these better than the CL bullets. I am gonna try and work up a loading that my bolt gun and his Ultra rifle like, so we can use the same ammo. I can only hope this bullet performs as well as the CL 100 gr has performed for me in the past.

Mattkc · « **Reply #17 on:** December 27, 2004, 07:58:27 PM »

I think this study shows we worry far to much about calibers, bullets and guns when we should be worried about shot placement. I normally go for a lung shot but this year had to take a shoulder shot. Hit the deer with a 150gr. Grandslam from my 308. He staggered bellowed and fell over, dead by the time I got to him. What I couldn't figure out was why he died. When I gutted him there was almost no blood no vital organs were hit. I assumed he died of shock and the study found a shoulder hit damages the brachial plexus nerve. Thats great but I don't like the ruined meat. This study kinda settles the " is 243 enough gun argument"

targetguy · « **Reply #18 on:** December 31, 2004, 03:26:21 PM »

Mac,

They were all reloads, with surplus 4895. I also thought of using the 150's but my primary use was for elk so I went with the 165's. I got some 150 Hornady interlocks that I will use on antelope next year, as well as a deer or two, but I was very impressed with the 16g GS on elk, so I will use it agian next year.

whitedogone · « **Reply #19 on:** January 01, 2005, 01:19:28 AM »

The best blood trail is no blood trail!!

Bis · « **Reply #20 on:** January 01, 2005, 11:17:09 AM »

Sierra 85 grain Game King using 44 grains of IMR-4831.

Shot the last buck at 60 yards, bullet entered thru right shoulder, exited just in front of left shoulder. Exit hole about the size of a quarter. The buck took 1 step and that was it.

icthus153 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2005, 12:36:24 AM »

i put up the cor loks and bought some 95 gr winchester ballistic silvertips and had the chance to try them saturday morning. 2 bucks and a doe came in and at 20 yards i shot 1 buck,a small 8 pt he ran about 10 steps and turned to look at the other deer who were in high gear at about 90 yards by now. i stopped them and heard the 8 crash while i was trying to get a bead on the doe.( legal in bama) it took about 5 minutes for them to move but when they did i shot and lost site of the doe. the six looked behind him like he was saying " where'd ya go " then he looked at the ground. she went down like a sack of taters. thats number eight for the handi this year.

zrexpilot · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2005, 07:34:57 AM »

I have used the .243 all my hunting life (25yrs)
My recent .243 is a Rem. VLS, Thats a Varmint heavy barell in laminate stock. Its 3 yrs old and already has 18 kills , deer and hogs and javeline.
I personally like the hornady's in 100 gr, or federal in 100 gr, BT or the Federal 85 gr HP. All three always pass through animals leaving excellent blood trails. I have taken big hogs at 250 yds with pass throughs using hornady's. the only bullet that I have used that did not pass through, was the Rem. core lockt. I do not use this ammo any more, even though they kill, I just prefer pass throughs. We took a big hog with a .300 mag using core lockts and it even failed to pass through. I dont like core lockts. try hornady's or federals ammo.