Author Topic: Am I a "Strawman"?  (Read 530 times)

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Offline Shorty

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Am I a "Strawman"?
« on: January 02, 2005, 07:25:12 AM »
:shock: At the risk of bringing the Fed's. through my door, lets say that I were to buy a .22 for my grandson for Christmas.  :wink:
I would have lied.  The purchase would NOT be for my own use.
The purchase would be for somebody who is ineligible to buy for himself.
Of course, he would not actually be in possesion of said rifle, and it would be kept in my gun case, but to him and me, it would be his.

Next question;  How can they make and market "Youth Guns" if it is illegal for youths to own them?  :?  :roll:

Offline Tc300mag1

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Am I a "Strawman"?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2005, 07:37:57 AM »
As long as its in your possion its yours untill you bestow the gift permently  thus not a straw purchase ... this is what ive heard  so take it with a grian or 2 or perhaps the whole bottle of salt

Offline Graybeard

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Am I a "Strawman"?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2005, 07:45:25 AM »
I believe the question on the yellow sheet is: Are you the ACTUAL buyer of this gun. Meaning are you buying it for yourself or as a gift like you will be or are you buying in to pass on to another who isn't legally allowed for a sum of money given you by them.

To buy a gun as a gift for a grand child is and always has been an honorable tradation in this country.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline FWiedner

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Am I a "Strawman"?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2005, 08:36:19 AM »
I realize that I am stating the obvious, but it is a hell of a thing when a man has to worry about how "legal" giving his grandson a .22 is.

Leaves a bad taste in a fella's mouth.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline myronman3

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Am I a "Strawman"?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2005, 11:50:18 AM »
Quote from: FWiedner
I realize that I am stating the obvious, but it is a hell of a thing when a man has to worry about how "legal" giving his grandson a .22 is.

Leaves a bad taste in a fella's mouth.


amen.   it is perfectly legal to buy a gun and give it as a gift.  

as far as the youth gun question, it is perfectly legal for folks under 18 to own a gun.  they just cant buy them.  you must be 21 to buy a handgun in wisconsin, but may own one if your 18.   hey, dont ask me; i dont write 'em, i just follow 'em.   :)

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2005, 12:09:14 PM »
Quote from: myronman3
Quote from: FWiedner
I realize that I am stating the obvious, but it is a hell of a thing when a man has to worry about how "legal" giving his grandson a .22 is.

Leaves a bad taste in a fella's mouth.


amen.   it is perfectly legal to buy a gun and give it as a gift.  

as far as the youth gun question, it is perfectly legal for folks under 18 to own a gun.  they just cant buy them.  you must be 21 to buy a handgun in wisconsin, but may own one if your 18.   hey, dont ask me; i dont write 'em, i just follow 'em.   :)


From the Texas Penal Code:

ยง 46.13.  MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A
CHILD
.

  (a)  In this section:  
      (1)  "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of
age.                  
      
(2)  "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.
      (3)  "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable
person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable
firearm by a child
, including but not limited to placing a firearm
in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm
inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.

  (b)  A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a
readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal
negligence:
      (1)  failed to secure the firearm;  or                                        
      (2)  left the firearm in a place to which the person
knew or should have known the child would gain access.

  (c)  It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
      (1)  was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
      (2)  consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;        
      (3)  was gained by entering property in violation of
this code;  or        
      (4)  occurred during a time when the actor was engaged
in an agricultural enterprise.

  (d)  Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under
this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

  (e)  An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor
if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious
bodily injury to himself or another person.

  (f)  A peace officer or other person may not arrest the actor
before the seventh day after the date on which the offense is
committed if:
      (1)  the actor is a member of the family, as defined by
Section 71.003, Family Code, of the child who discharged the
firearm;  and
      (2)  the child in discharging the firearm caused the
death of or serious injury to the child.

  (g)  A dealer of firearms shall post in a conspicuous
position on the premises where the dealer conducts business a sign
that contains the following warning in block letters not less than
one inch in height:

"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON AN UNSECURED
FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM
."

------

I remember hunting solo with a .22 when I was 10 years old.

Looks like the issue is adult supervision.  I mean, it's like, "for the children".

Maybe my mother just didn't care.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Patriot_1776

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Am I a "Strawman"?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2005, 06:52:36 PM »
FWiedner wrote:
Quote
Looks like the issue is adult supervision. I mean, it's like, "for the children".


I believe you've hit the nail on the head; And I believe that is what everyone is saying.  What is happening, is everyone is saying the same thing, but the wording goes according to how they put it.  It doesn't make any difference! As long as the weapon is in the adult's name, he is a responsible gun owner, and wants the gun to be used solely by the intended child, it is OK.  EXCEPT, he (the parent/legal guardian) must as well be solely responsible for the actions of that child up until the minor is of proper age to legally own/purchase one himself.  All this adds up to: As long as the child's actions are safeguarded against accidental or intentional injury or death to himself or others, and measures are taken to prevent unauthorized access to the firearm, it is perfectly within the law.  But IMO, everyone is agreeing with each other in the same thing, just different wording.

myronman3 wrote:

Quote
it is perfectly legal for folks under 18 to own a gun. they just cant buy them. you must be 21 to buy a handgun in wisconsin, but may own one if your 18.


I think what you are trying to say, is the term "own" is being used in place of the idea of "having in one's possession."  Correct?  And the term "buy" is being used in place of the term "legal written ownership."  Is that also correct, or is the wording being used "as is"?  I'm not quite sure what the point is. :?   Patriot
-Patriot

Offline Shorty

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Am I a "Strawman"?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2005, 11:54:20 AM »
:-) Wow!.  I'm not sure if I'm sure or not!  :lol:
Anyway, my question was rhetorical, because I figure, screw 'em.  I just wondered about the letter-of-the-law aspect.  8)  Thanks for the input.

Offline myronman3

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Am I a "Strawman"?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2005, 01:16:42 PM »
texas has one of the youngest age allowed for young hunters.   i aint no lawyer. either.  all i can tell you is i know it is legal for someone under 18 to own a gun, and you can buy a gun for someone as a gift.  
  i also know the arm of hte law is long, and if they want you, they can get you for something.