Author Topic: Bloodied my 45-70 (Read 747 times)

JPH45 · « **on:** January 05, 2005, 05:14:05 PM »

A spike wandered his way into my sights this evening, and I promptly shot hin with my 45-70. He was quartering to me, and I shot him in his left shoulder. Ne went about 15 yards and lay down, when I got to him he was looking at me but couldn't rise, a coup de grace was required. (Thats twice this year, whats up with that?

) The shot was perfectly on where I was aiming, but the bone must have deflected it as it exited out his lower neck :eek: Shot was at about 25 yards, a pure lead Lee 405 HP, pushed along by 15 grains of Unique at 1200 fps. Bullet should have exited the mid off side ribs, or so I would have thought. I'm wondering if a harder bullet would have made a difference. Overall the load worked good and did exactly what it was supposed to do, bring the deer down.

Go NEF :-D Go 45-70 :-D

hellacatcher · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:24:21 PM »

Looks like good eating is in store for you. :-)

jeff223 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:27:02 PM »

GOOD JOB JPH45 :toast:

marv · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:37:02 PM »

Am I invited for breakfast Back strap and greavy nothing better :-D
JPH 45 My thoughts are maybe a little harder bullet, just my 2 cents
Marv.
PS I could be wrong, have been a few times just don't remember when

JPH45 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:50:12 PM »

Of course you're invited marv, all you have to do is get to the breakfast table before me :-D :roll: :-D

safetysheriff · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2005, 08:24:57 PM »

Quote from: JPH45

A spike wandered his way into my sights this evening, and I promptly shot hin :-D

I must have been overly tired, having gotten home at 1:00am

NE Hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2005, 04:56:33 AM »

I'm no expert .... not even close. I think the pure lead is your problem it probably deformed to easily on the bone and didnt penetrate. Did you cast his yourself? If so try used wheel weights for your alloy. They come pretty close to what Lyman called #2 alloy

fish280 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2005, 05:33:34 AM »

marv wants breakfast. he's too far away. i'm not. :wink:
good job. good eating.

44 Man · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2005, 05:41:44 AM »

Yes a flat nosed 400 gr cast bullet, cast from wheel wts would have gone straight thru breaking bones on its way. Actually one of those bullets at 1200 fps will go full length thru a deer. Good shooting! 44 Man

safetysheriff · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2005, 06:34:42 AM »

We've debated this before.....and you can believe it -- pure lead penetrates. It doesn't fracture because - as soft as it is - it is extremely cohesive. Sam Fadala has written of penetrating a bull buffalo all the way through from side to side and breaking a chunk of rib out of the animal with a .54 caliber, I believe. He had a picture of the lead ball where the cloth patch was imprinted on it after it had hit that rib and broken it off. Pure Lead penetrates!

A jacketed bullet would make the difference, if of proper design for the impact velocity - such as the Hornady XTP - in causing more internal damage and bringing the issue to a close sooner. The copper jacket itself becomes a cutting agent and renders a more humane kill.

My first buck with a roundball of pure lead did the same thing as this one. So I reloaded and put him out with a second shot the same way. I'd much rather do it with a jacketed bullet.

SS'

marv · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2005, 06:48:44 AM »

Fish 280, You may be closer to JPH 45 but you still have to
beat JPH 45 to the table :-D :-D :-D :-D
Marv.

bja105 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2005, 05:05:50 PM »

"He was quartering to me, and I shot him in his left shoulder. Ne went about 15 yards and lay down, when I got to him he was looking at me but couldn't rise, a coup de grace was required. (Thats twice this year, whats up with that?

)"

What organs were hit?

Sometimes, when they fall in sight, death seems very slow in coming (from our point of view.) I've had the habit of filling deer with holes, when my first shot would be fatal, especially when I hunt in an open field, and they can't get out of sight. When I was younger, I shot a running buck 5 times, the first 3 shots making a respectable group on his liver. any of those would have been fatal, but he kept running, and I kept shooting!

Archery hunting has taught me to slow down. usually the deer is out of range for a second shot, so I just watch quietly.

There is nothing wrong with ending a deer's life immediately with a second shot, it is very humane. But, if you are sure the first shot did the trick, there is a lot to be learned from silently letting the deer die in peace.

One more thing, I probably would have shot it again, too!

JPH45 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 06, 2005, 06:21:51 PM »

I was unsure of how the deer was hit, and as he lay it was impossible to see the bullet wound, all that was obvious was he was very alert, head was upright and he was quite conscious, he just couldn't run. Death could take quite a while from a lethal would that is not a quick killing wound. I blew his brains out, what I would want someone to do for me at that moment were the situation reversed.

It was dark enough as I gutted him that I could not make a proper autopsy of the shot, as I had dragged him away from where he died and lost the light. ( I don't like leaving guts in the immediate vicinity of a kill, I believe it spooks other deer, I could be wrong) I took the animal to be processed rather than cut it up myself so I'll never be sure of what if any major organs were hit.

I've experienced plenty enough of death in my lifetime, human and animal, that I've no need to allow an unnessicary suffering to continue at anothers expense. The act of killing is a gruesome affair at best, I take little pleasure in it, another living creature has died so that I might live.

Not slamming your ethics, it may be that what you are saying doesn't fall into that realmn for you, just being clear about what is right for me.

bja105 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2005, 01:14:12 PM »

jhp45, I can't argue with any of that, especially with an alert deer. Its a shame you didn't get to see how your bullet worked. At least you didn't have to search for it in the dark, that is no fun.

JPH45 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 07, 2005, 02:18:28 PM »

bja105, I appreciate that. I also appreciate your point of just not shooting till it quits moving.

I think we did pretty good navigating through this one, sometimes written words are taken differently than are intended. I think we both want the same thing, a clean humane kill. Most of the time we get that. Occasionally things don't go as we would like. It was just a little troubling that twice this year I've had to do a coup de grace, the first was on a doe I "threw down on" and yanked the trigger before I was really ready to take the shot, I blew out 2" of her spine, unfortunately such a shot is almost never immediately fatal in itself, and it was just frustrating to have to go through that again, hence my comment "Twice this year, what's up with that"

Thanks again for your comments,

John