Author Topic: FN-49 handloads  (Read 1388 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline halfbreed

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 219
FN-49 handloads
« on: January 04, 2005, 10:46:53 AM »
Hello everyone, I have a fn-49 8mm mauser, I am looking to reload for this rifle. I keep hearing to stay away from the Turk ammo. What is the legitimate top velocity for this rifle with 180 grain bullets, anybody use cast bullets in their semi auto militarys? What is the optimal powders for the semi auto. I have never reloaded for a semi auto before, what about dies as well. Thanks guys, Halfbreed

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
FN-49 handloads
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2005, 12:22:15 PM »
First don't forget to adjust the gas valve to the ammo your using in your FN49.  If you take off your handguard there is a rotary sleeve you have to open the exhaust port all the way and close it till the gun just cycles then its set properly.  If you have too much gas in the system you can hammer the gun for no gain.   The FN49 gas system adjusts how much gas is exhausted from the system.  Its not like the Hakim,  Rasheed and the SVT Tokarev they adjust how much gas goes to operate the system.

For Dies i got mine from MidwayUSA I use the LEE RGB Dies  $9 a set.   I bought most of my military calibers in all Lee dies in the RGB series were i could because of the price.   I just got done doing 5k of 308win with a set of LEE RGB dies without a problem.  The LEE Pacesetter Dies come with a shell holder and measuring cup too for around $20.   I also bought a set of LEE measuring cups too its the best $6 you'll ever spend.

While your at MidwayUSA you may want to take a look at the reloading supplies too the "8MM bullets"  too.

The recomended  powder for the semi-auto rifles is IMR 4895.   The powder burn rate is just right for cycling the semi auto rifles.  I use it in all my semi auto rifles.  Now you need to use a military type nato primer too so slam fires won't occur with floating firing pins in military semi auto rifles.  I use the CCI #34 nato primers in all my semi auto rifles too.
                                                                     BigBill

Maybe Mikey will chime in because he has experience with using lead cast bullets in rifles so he would know more about it.

Offline halfbreed

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 219
FN-49 handloads
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2005, 01:02:39 PM »
Big Bill lots of info, thanks alot. I am wondering with all the talk about not shooting the Turk ammo, what is the high acceptable velocities to look for. I would really hate to destroy this rifle just because of loading too hot.
Thanks for the response, halfbreed

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
FN-49 handloads
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2005, 02:30:20 AM »
halfbreed;   I don't reload any of my semi-auto's too hot at all.  In looking at the 8mm reloading specs in the Hornady handbook vol 2 you have a range from 2,300fps to 2,800fps for the 170gr bullet.   I would stay on the lighter side between 2,300fps & 2,500fps(max) with the semi-auto.   The Turk ammo is around 3,000fps and some have been recorded over 3,000fps too.  Like I said before on the FN49 open the exhaust port all the way open and close it till the gun just cycles and the bolt locks open on the last shot(mag empty) then its set ok so your not crashing the slide into the rear of the reciever by having too much gas in the system.                                                             BigBill

I learned really quick once, on the way to the range I purchased an SVT-40 Tokarev and it looked clean and ok to shoot so i shot it at the range just to make sure it shot.  After my very first round i knew something was wrong with this gun it was like getting hit with a baseball bat on my shoulder when i fired it.  I stopped after the first round and when i got home I noticed the gas valve was all the way open so it had too much gas and was slamming the bolt carrier into the back of the reciever thus hitting me in the shoulder.   After adjusting the gas valve the gun was fine but it sure taught me a lesson because now I check and set every adjustable gas system rifle to the ammo i'm using.  Some of these guns can cycle so fast it can extract the bullet case before the bullet leaves the barrel thus hitting the shooter in the face with the hot gasses and making it seem like an out of battery firing too.  Its understanding how the gas system works and adjusts too. All this surplus ammo is loaded different too.  Once the gun is adjusted correctly to the ammo  their a hoot to shoot!!!!!

Offline halfbreed

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 219
FN-49 handloads
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2005, 05:20:09 AM »
BigBill, I understand about the gas valve, my biggest concern was about the loading velocity. I really have not been able to find any referances  for the safe top velocity for these fn's. I have read many times about the Turk ammo being too hot, but then again I have never seen what their velocity was. I kinew Hornady reloading was very near the 06 levels, but AA is much closer to 2300-2400 fps. That is quite a spread to try to work around. too much velocity blows anything up, too little causes dangerous hangfires that could blow things up too. But your referances will help alot. Thank you. Halfbreed

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
FN-49 handloads
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2005, 12:52:12 AM »
Sorry for dwelling on certain things about the FN49 and other guns with adjustable gas systems but i try to teach others who may not know about them.

Now with your reloading for the FN49 or any other semi auto.  If your exhaust is wide open on your FN49 and it still cycles I would then go to inspect the ejected shell casing to look for the extractor marks.  If the case has marks on it then you know the load is too much if the gas valve is all the way open.  Now if the gas valve is halfway open and you have extractor marks you need to open the valve up more(this is on the FN49 only) This is the only visual way to check it by reading the empty case.
                                                                         BigBill

Offline Mikey

  • GBO Supporter
  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8734
FN-49 handloads
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2005, 03:24:14 AM »
halfbreed:  if you want to reload for that 8mm FN49, find yourself some new factory ammo, like the S&B with the 196 gn bullet, see how she shoots with that ammo, and then reload to those specs.  
The military semi-autos were designed to handle mil-spec loads and I believe the pressures on the 8mm were/are similar to those on the mil-spec 06 and 308 ammo, somewhere around 46-50k psi.  These are not hot loads - velocities with the nominal 147-150 gn 308/30-06 loads were somewhere around 2700'/sec.  Match/sniper loads using a 174/177 gn slug in the 308 were 2550'/sec and in the 30-06 with the same weight bullet at 2650'/sec.  That would probably put the 8mm with a 196 gn load somewhere around 2450-2500'/sec.  Some of the best mil-surp 8mm I have encountered is the Portugese 8mm with a 196 gn bullet.  

I would look to european loading data for that cartridge.  American ammo makers have traditionally loaded down the european calibers in favor of the latest American craze and have not treated european calibers well at all.  Literally the best ammo for the euro calibers that has come out in recent years is the Sellier and Bellot - all made to original mil-spec for those calibers which sets them up right.  The only way I would opt for a 308 over an 8mm is if I couldn't get good 8mm ammo and even then I wouldn't bother with the 308, I would find something else.

Using Speer data, you can load the 8mm 200 gn spitzer soft-point to 2469 with 52 gn of H380, which is a max load.  But,  46 gn of IMR 4064 gets you 2434'/sec and 53 gns - compressed- of IMR 4350 gets you 2432'/sec.  All these loads should make that FN function fine.  Speer also lists a reduced load in 4198 with 28 gns getting to 1726'/sec but I don't know if that would function your piece.  Most folk I know who relaod for semi-autos, including myself, prefer the faster burning powders for the semi-autos.  You can load the slower powders but you run the risk of not having enough pressure to function the action (eg, some of the Hornaday Light Magnums rounds are not recommended for semi-autos because they use large charges of slower buring powders that may not reach a pressure peak in enough time (barrel length) to function the action).  You may wish to see if Steve's pages list loads for the 8mm that would work for you - that man has an incredible inventory of reloading data.

I would also avoid cast bullets, even gas-checked, to keep from fouling your gas port.

I see one VihtaVuori Oy load for the 200 gn jacketed bullet using their N140 powder that gives 2530'/sec at 49.3K psi; and, two 175 gn loads using the same N140 powder with 46.6 gns giving 2580'/sec at 49.3k psi and 49.7 gns giving 2670'/sec also at 49.3k psi.  

HTH and good luck.  Let us know whatcha come up with.  Mikey.

Offline halfbreed

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 219
FN-49 handloads
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2005, 07:26:09 AM »
BigBill, Mikey, thanks for the great information. BigBill there is certainly no need to apolagize about trying to keep someone safe. I did not know about the extractor marks and the gas block adjustment in this sense, I did know about adjusting it to the load to keep from hammering the receiver. I do enjoy shooting this rig alot.
Mikey, I had often wondered about the cast bullets in the semi auto, I have never tried it before, I always wanted to know more about that aspect. I have a Lyman cast bullet handbook on its way. You are exactly right about the U.S. manufacturers loading down the European ammo. Again thanks guys, John

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
FN-49 handloads
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2005, 09:36:37 AM »
Mikey is the burn rate of the IMR 4350 ok for the FN49??  I know it isn't for the M1 garand  "semi auto".   I know the most recomended and used powder for the semi-auto's is IMR 4895 because of the burn rate it has on the cycling of the semi-auto's thats all i use for them.  I'm not sure about the other powders you talked about for the semi-autos.       BigBill

The more I research into reloading its a science too.  Its all about matchine the right burn rate powder to the barrel twist too to produce the best accuracy.   Some of these old war horses can be easy to figure out a reload for and some can be fun too in a negative way.(a b buster)

You can find some info at; http://www.reloadbench.com/main.html

And burn rates at; http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

Offline Mikey

  • GBO Supporter
  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8734
FN-49 handloads
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2005, 02:36:04 AM »
Mornin' BigBill:  Hay, how'z ya??  4350 is the slowest of the IMR powders listed for the 8mm and the 06, and are too slow for the semi-autos.  The IMR powders that are shown in my Lyman manuals for the 8mm run according to burn rates with 3031 first, then 4064, 4895 (06 loads reverse these powders), 4320 and 4350.  I have used 3031, 4064 and 4350 in loading for 06 semi-autos and I believe a target load for the 06 used a 180 gn bullet over 47.5 of 4895 for the Garands.  HTH.  Mikey.