Powder Types Question(s)

[mountainview]

Have been trying to discern the practical differences between flake, extruded, and ball powders. As a new reloader, most of what I have seen and read is more detailed than I need for guiding my load development work to date. If there is a reasonably short answer, my questions are:

1) Is there a preferred application for each powder type (e.g. better for hunting or target shooting etc.) or is it more of "if it goes bang and gives good accuracy/velocity with reasonable pressure" then it is the right powder to use?
2) Does one powder type work better, in general, for short cartridges versus long or magnum cases?

Thanks.

[Questor]

I really shouldn't matter to you when selecting a powder, except that long extruded powders (sticks) do not meter as well as short sticks of extruded powder, and the other types.  If you're shooting rifles for hunting consider the temperature insensitive powders, like RL15 and the Hodgon Extreme powders.  Rifle powders are usually extruded or ball. Pistol powders are usually flake or ball.  I pick my powders based on performance and convenience. For example, Hodgdon 4831 is good, but for me Hodgdon 4831SC is better because it works as well as 4831, but has shorter sticks and it meters better.  Some say that ball powders erode barrels more but I haven't seen any proof of that assertion.

Most serious rifle shooters seem to prefer extruded powders. Most magnum handgun shooters prefer a ball powder. Those preferences, though, are based on performance.

[Patriot_1776]

Have been trying to discern the practical differences between flake, extruded, and ball powders.

That depends, on what it is going to be used in.  For target-type pistols, many target powders are in the flake form.  Usually, they are on the faster side, with the exception of the slower types such as Blue Dot.  Flake powders, are designed to burn quickly and uniformly for even gas despersion, and therefore better target accuracy.  

Extruded and/or ball powders ( IMR 4227 and H110 for example) are more often used in magnums (still talking about being used in pistol calibers) or where a slower burning powder will give better velocity, and consistent pressures.  Most often, in cartridges like the 44 Mag and 454 Casull, they use hefty charges of slower burning powders to keep pressures reliable, safe, and also keep it burning as clean as possible.  There are powders suitable for reduced loads, but all around hunting type loads are geared for power, accuracy, and reliability.  

As for rifle class cartridges, the extruded/ball powders are the norm.  The difference lies mostly in powder burning rates.  Flake powders would not be suitable for standard charges in rifles; however, there are some who have experimented and have found some very good reduced load using flake-type/faster burning powders.  

     

1) Is there a preferred application for each powder type (e.g. better for hunting or target shooting etc.) or is it more of "if it goes bang and gives good accuracy/velocity with reasonable pressure" then it is the right powder to use?

This is what reloading is all about! :wink:   The idea is to find the preferred powder/bullet/case/primer combo that your gun shoots best while still staying within pressure standards.  People can give their pet loads that put 5 shots through the same hole at 200yds, but in your gun, they may not even stay on the paper (or may not be safe in your rifle; always recommended to WORK LOADS UP CAREFULLY).  Thats just the way it goes, this rifle likes this one load, and another rifle of the same brand and model will not shoot that particular load at all.  I'm not trying to put down your comment, but it really is, as you are seeing, not as simple as finding a load that "goes bang, is accurate, and offers good velocity."  As you get more experience, you will find ( and be looking for) more ways to help increase accuracy.

   

2) Does one powder type work better, in general, for short cartridges versus long or magnum cases?

Very often it depends mostly on the usage to be gained.  Standard type cartridges (30-06, 308 Win., and 243 Win. for example) have a case design that seems to work very well with all-around powders like the 4350, 4064 series of powders.  Same for magnums, they prefer the slower powders like the 7828, Re22, and Re25 series.  But the key is, to follow reloading instructions carefully, work up, and try to find that special niche your gun shoots best.

Hope this helps you some, and if you need more info, I'm sure there will be others to give their opinions and tips.  

-Patriot

[Questor]

I've found it to be very worthwhile to research the best powders for a particular cartridge. With most cartridges, a short list of powders that have given the best performance over the years can be found if you look for it. www.reloadbench.com is a good place to start.  Asking for pet loads at forums like this can be helpful too.  This approach has saved me much experimentation and given me a relatively quick path to good loads for all of my cartridges.

[PA-Joe]

Mountainview.

Do you have a reloading book?

What calibers adn types of cases are you going to be relaoding?

Do you have a single or automatic press?

Have you checks to see what items your local dealer has in stock?

Look over the reloading book, identify what type case, primer and bullet points you have access to. The reloading book will indicate what powders you can use. Then see what primers, bullet points and powder your local dealer has in stock.

If you tell us what bullets you're reloading then we can let you know what powders we are using. I reload 223, 7mm08 and 30-06. For the 223 I use 748 powder. For the 7mm08 and 30-06 I use 4064. Both with Hornady points and cci primers. For most of my pistol loads I use Unique Powder.

[rbwillnj]

Page 2 of the Lapua catalog has a nice burn rate chart that compares the burn rates of powders from all of the manufacturers.  Nice reference.  You can find it at this link.  http://www.nammo.fi/

[longwinters]

Considering H-4831.  When comparing the regular H-4831 vs. the H-4831sc, if you are using the same grain weight is the volume in the case the same?

Long

[Bart Solo]

Reloading is kinda like cooking in that you follow a recipe.  Unlike cooking you don't use a pinch of this or a skosh of that.  You should measure precisely.  You absolutely have to stay within the published guidelines for the minimum and, most importantly, the maximum loads for the components you are using.  Within those minimum and maximum guidelines you move slowly from minimum to maximum until you find the best loading.  From what I have read, the best load is seldom the maximum published load, and the maximum load has a tendency to wear out your rifle much faster than something lighter.  

The great thing about reloading is that there are tons of recipe books and despite what some might say, the maximums and minimums for each cartridge and powder are seldom very far apart from book to book.

[victorcharlie]

As a general rule, the most accurate powder is usually one that fills the case completely in order to achieve the velocity desired.

[rbwillnj]

[As a general rule, the most accurate powder is usually one that fills the case completely in order to achieve the velocity desired.]

Don't know about rifle loads, cause I only load for pistol, but that  does not hold for pistol.

[Bart Solo]

As a general rule, the most accurate powder is usually one that fills the case completely in order to achieve the velocity desired.

Victorcharlie

Would you provide written source of that observation.  I would like to read it.