Author Topic: Need a cure for cancer...??  (Read 2494 times)

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TM7

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Need a cure for cancer...??
« on: January 06, 2005, 02:13:51 PM »
Well then check out this link FWIW...kinda interesting scientifically and politically:

  http://www.luminet.net/~wenonah/new/naessen.htm


.....................TM7[/url]

Offline magooch

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Need a cure for cancer...??
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2005, 03:04:54 PM »
Yeah right, and there really is a Santa Claus and an Easter Bunny.
Swingem

Offline Brett

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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2005, 03:38:21 AM »
Based on the other trash I saw on the Sumeria  web site (where this article originated) I wouldn't put a great deal of stock in it.  :P
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Offline Brett

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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2005, 12:02:58 PM »
Quote from: TM7
Trudeau gives another example of an herbal derived diabetes cure...a pharmeceutical company bought the rights to the material from a researcher for 30 million and the researcher's partner is missing.

...........TM7


So why is this pharmeceutical company not making a fortune marketing this stuff if they bought the rights to it?  Hello.... anybody home?
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Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2005, 12:26:57 PM »
Quote from: Brett
Quote from: TM7
Trudeau gives another example of an herbal derived diabetes cure...a pharmeceutical company bought the rights to the material from a researcher for 30 million and the researcher's partner is missing.

...........TM7


So why is this pharmeceutical company not making a fortune marketing this stuff if they bought the rights to it?
:idea:
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Offline george

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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2005, 12:37:23 PM »
Never underestimate natural cures. Within 3 weeks of my first visit to a naturopath my liver was functioning again, avoiding some horrible chemicals and operations that my doctor had planned. :grin:

Not sure about cancer but anythings possible!

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2005, 12:43:18 PM »
Quote from: george
Within 3 weeks of my first visit to a naturopath my liver was functioning again, avoiding some horrible chemicals and operations that my doctor had planned.
:agree: :agree: :agree:
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Offline Brett

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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2005, 04:33:05 PM »
Quote from: TM7
Quote from: Brett
Quote from: TM7
Trudeau gives another example of an herbal derived diabetes cure...a pharmeceutical company bought the rights to the material from a researcher for 30 million and the researcher's partner is missing.

...........TM7


So why is this pharmaceutical company not making a fortune marketing this stuff if they bought the rights to it?  Hello.... anybody home?


BEcause they can NOT patent 'naturally' occurring substances; only can patent and exclusively market substances that they create. 714-x is apparently a natural camphor product and may not be patentable, too.


..........TM7


okay... if 714-x is not patentable how did the drug company buy the rights to it?   Secondly if no one could hold a patent on 714-x what is to stop the drug company from processing and marketing the stuff themselves... if it actually works and is safe that is?   I'm not trying to bash you TM7, I'm just trying to get you to think about what you are saying.  penicillin is made from mold, polio & flu vaccines are made from weakened viruses both natural substances.  Maybe 714-x and this guy Trudeau and his story are legit' however you know the ol' saying if it swims like a fish, breaths water like a fish and smells like a fish it is most likely a fish.
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Offline george

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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2005, 06:02:27 PM »
Quote from: TM7
Quote from: george
Never underestimate natural cures. Within 3 weeks of my first visit to a naturopath my liver was functioning again, avoiding some horrible chemicals and operations that my doctor had planned. :grin:

Not sure about cancer but anythings possible!


Good for you george and god Bless... if you want to expound a little on you experience I'd like to hear about it.

............TM7


Hi TM7.

Basically bad lifestlye caught up with me, and at 29 my blood pressure shot up from normal to stroke-causing within a few weeks. The pills controlled that, but I had no energy and couldn't get out of bed for work or play... terrible! Especially at such a young age :(

Various pathology tests led to liver function being suspected, then biopsies of the liver confirmed it not having fun. I wasn't yet in transplant-city, but I was on the highway taking me there.

After the first biopsy I'd had enough. It seemed my doctor (nice guy) just wanted to treat symptoms as they appeared, rather than fix whatever caused it in the first place. A guy I work with moonlights as a 'natural healer' and so we started chatting and eventually I saw him professionally.

Basically my energy problems were caused from the liver not working as it helps supply fresh clean blood for the brain (frontal lobes?)... and the liver was suffering due to chemical imbalances. In simple terms, he determined the specific vitamins and minerals that were lacking/depleted, and set me a list of about 15 to take daily. Note that these were in addition to the fruit/veges I allready ate.

Within about 3 days I felt like I could run a marathon, things changed so fast. About 3 weeks later I had another series of tests with my doctor, he was stunned. My liver was fine, just creeping into the 'normal' category.

My naturopath has a lot of ideas about many things, which I cant really agree with, but by the same token he was right about my liver and how to fix it, so it's hard to discount some of the more amazing things that he claims. Hence, a 'natural' cure for cancer (as mentioned earlier somewhere in this topic) sounds fantastic but who am I to say it's impossible?

I remember a conversation I had about 10 years ago, the guy recalled that the same person who did the research into lead poisoning and proved it was bad for us, had researched prostate cancer too and had theories about curing that through diet. His work on lead poisoning was accepted, and these days people all know the dangers, but apparantly his work on prostate cancer was ignored. I wish I could contact the person who told me this, so I could get more details (names etc) and look into it. To me it would appear obvious that if one cancer can be cured in this way then other cancers must be similarly vulnerable, if the right research were done.

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2005, 05:53:19 AM »
Quote from: Brett
if it swims like a fish, breaths water like a fish and smells like a fish it is most likely a fish.
Amen, remark Dali Llama. :-)  :-)  :-)
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Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2005, 07:16:33 AM »
Quote from: TM7
Quote from: Dali Llama
Quote from: Brett
if it swims like a fish, breaths water like a fish and smells like a fish it is most likely a fish.
Amen, remark Dali Llama. :-)  :-)  :-)


Yep...and old chinese proverb say: in time nothing stink more than rotten fish........
:)  :-D  :-D  :D
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline george

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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2005, 07:42:32 PM »
Quote from: TM7
Imagine where we would all be if vitamins, herbs, and even asprin were restricted to prescription only...which was the original plan.............................TM7


I have a sneaking suspicion that many drugs are 'prescription only' to keep us rotating through the doctor's surgery for our scripts... in many south american countries I just asked the pharmacist for things I wanted and no 'script was needed, I guess in those places people cant afford the doctor as well as the medicine.

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2005, 06:35:02 AM »
Quote from: TM7
The whole thing parallels our citizens fight to keep our gun owning rights in tact.

:toast:
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Offline george

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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2005, 02:03:49 PM »
Quote from: TM7
the reason I got into this alternative research is because I have a dear friend who is mid-forties, 3 kids and wife who has been diagnosed with MS...........................TM7


Did he drink a lot of soft drinks eg diet coke etc? My naturopath is closely following research that some of the chemicals in these 'sugar-free' drinks can lead to MS. Whether it is the actual cause of the damage, or just the trigger that sets it off if you've got it, is still being looked at.

Offline george

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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2005, 03:05:48 PM »
Quote from: TM7
Quote from: george
Did he drink a lot of soft drinks eg diet coke etc?


As a matter of fact, yes and still does, probably more than the average guy, and of the aspartame type. ...................TM7


Hmm. Well, there's a lot of people saying the aspartame-ms link is a hoax, but my naturopath is fully into it. Something about it breaking down the protective sheaths around the nerves?

Have a look here to: http://www.ahherald.com/health/tyh_010301_diet_soda.htm

Google can turn up a lot more, as well as the hoax-theory rebuttals, however from your earlier posts I'm not sure how receptive your friend would be to this type of info.

But, if we accept at face value the claim that these drinks can cause problems with symptoms that are then mis-diagnosed as being MS, then the MS doesn't actually exist, and the poisoning can be rectified by stopping drinking the diet colas.

It sounds incredulous to suggest that someone doesn't actually have a disease that they are suffering from and being treated for (without success) but imagine if giving up the soft drinks removed all (or even a majority) of the problem?

If you could convince your friend to give up the soft drinks 100%, and drink at least 2 litres (about 1/2 gallon) of water daily... I'd be very keen to know if it achieves anything after 3 or 4 weeks.

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2005, 01:09:37 AM »
Quote from: george
If you could convince your friend to give up the soft drinks 100%, and drink at least 2 litres (about 1/2 gallon) of water daily... I'd be very keen to know if it achieves anything after 3 or 4 weeks.
Dali Llama say he find switch to at least 2 litres per day of beer to be preferable. :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
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Offline george

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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2005, 02:21:00 AM »
Quote from: Dali Llama
Dali Llama say he find switch to at least 2 litres per day of beer to be preferable. :grin:  :grin:  :grin:


A man after my own heart! :D

And if the diet-soda is the culprit, 2 litres of beer would probably be a step in the right direction :wink:... and tastier than the water too :P

Offline Dali Llama

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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2005, 08:07:52 AM »
Quote from: george
Quote from: Dali Llama
Dali Llama say he find switch to at least 2 litres per day of beer to be preferable. :grin:  :grin:  :grin:


A man after my own heart! :D

And if the diet-soda is the culprit, 2 litres of beer would probably be a step in the right direction :wink:... and tastier than the water too :P
...and would certainly leave one in better spirits, remark Dali Llama! :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
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Offline Doc TH

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Cures
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2005, 02:41:13 PM »
Astonishing that all of these brilliant medical scientists haven't been offered the job as Director of the National Institutes of Health, isn't it?
Simon and Garfunkel said it well:
"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest..."

And when these yahoos take your money for these "cures", remember PT Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute."

Offline BamBams

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« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2005, 05:08:27 PM »
Quote from: Doc TH
Simon and Garfunkel said it well:
"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest..."


Yup, that is sayin' it well.  *smiles*  I love that song too - "The Boxer"
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Offline Doc TH

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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2005, 04:18:42 AM »
TM7 that's not what I said at all.
Sure, there were many "remedies" utilized before acceptance of the scientific method in medicine.  Some of them may have actually worked (e.g., willow bark contains a natural form of aspirin, smallpox vaccination was used in 18th century).  But the fact is the overwhelming majority of them were ineffective - e.g., bleeding, purging, building high walls to keep out malaria (which means "bad air"), bathing viewed as unhealthful, prescribing of topical application and ingestion of animal dung, etc., etc.  For all intents and purposes, these were ineffective against the biggest killers of their days - TB, cholera, diphtheria, measles, yellow fever, malaria, cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, and even childbirth, etc., etc.  Do you believe our infant mortality rate today is higher than it was in the 18th, 19th, or early 20th century?  Do you recall that even in the early 20th century a diagnosis of type 1 diabetes was a death sentence?  The major reason for the apparent increase in the incidence of cancer is that we are surviving infectious diseases, hypertension, diabetes, etc., and living longer which inevitably increases the likelihood of developing malignancies.
None of this has anything to do with the AMA, an organization that keeps me skeptical.  And the FDA came about because Congress passed the pure food act, and later the Kefauver amendments, certainly not because pharmaceutical companies wanted it.
Anybody who believes "natural" or "folk" remedies are acceptably safe and effective is free to prove it with scientifically credible evidence that is validated by independent reviewers.  The NIH, with taxpayer money, has an entire Center devoted to the study of alternative medicine and whose funded studies have thus far gotten no extra-base hits.

Offline Doc TH

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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2005, 07:01:09 AM »
Well, while I can agree that the pharmaceutical industry has been permitted to influence drug use beyond what is appropriate, most of the reasons are political and legal, not medical.  Direct to consumer advertising, paying for and occasionally suppressing clinical data, to name a few, are not in the public interest.  But such activities were not promulgated by the NIH, FDA, or "organized medicine" (whatever that is).  Dr. Angel, former editor of the New England Journal has recently published a book highly critical of the drug companies.  I recommend it.

I do not agree that we are in a "dark age" where medicine is not open-minded.  Many more new theories and findings are accepted today than ever before.  Pasteur, Lister, Semmelweiss, et al. are not "outcasts", nor are the folks today who found that H. pylori was the cause of most ulcer disease - a very controversial but accurate view.

Our infant mortality rate is not rising, it is falling - down to 6.8 per 1,000 live births in most recent national data.  And infant mortality is not an index of general population health, but of social and behavioral public health problems.  Major risk factors for infant death are: no prenatal care; adolescent pregnancies; unmarried status; smoking.  These are social, not medical issues.

I'm not sure what you mean by "everybody knows the cause of cancer..."  Heredity, radiation and UV exposure, smoking, papilloma virus infection, benzene exposure, maybe Agent Orange are documented causes.  Others are not yet proven.  What is very clear is that aging is a major contributing factor.  Anybody that can prove one cause will get the Nobel prize.

The FDA does not suppress homeopathy.  In fact, FDA is prohibited by law from evaluating any homeopathic products for safety and effectiveness.  Likewise, under the Hatch Act, manufacturers of dietary supplements do not have to show their products are safe, or effective.  The FDA can remove them from the market only if FDA can prove they are unsafe.

It's not entirely true that "natural" products cannot be patented and manufactured as drugs.  Many pharmaceuticals are derived from botanicals - e.g., vincristine (periwinkle), digitalis (foxglove), taxol (Yew tree bark), quinine, etc.  I don't see it as inimical to the public that these products are produced in inspected facilities, with scientifically demonstrated effectiveness, and in known and predictable dosages.  I'd rather have that than to go out in the backyard to pick foxglove for grandpa's heart failure.

If promoters of any alternative care can produce credible and scientifically defensible evidence of effectiveness, I will accept that.  My concern is that for the most part they pitch unverified and usually unverifiable anecdotal or apocryphal allegations.  Having said that, if someone gets leukemia or Hodgkins disease and wants to use homeopathic or naturalist products instead of chemotherapy, that's their decision and I won't arm wrestle them over it.  Just don't ask me to pay for it.