Author Topic: loose pin (Read 1638 times)

Tad Houston · « **on:** July 06, 2004, 12:02:18 PM »

got a used 1851 pietta with a brass frame off the internet, is there a shim washer i could put under the cylinder pin to make it tight again? I can tighten the pin up, and it seems good, its just indexed wrong. I need to shim it out so when it tightens up, the wedge pin slot lines up with the barrel. Thanks- Tad

Flint · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2004, 05:27:20 PM »

A couple of things. One is, you shouldn't be able to rotate the base pin at all without drilling out the locking pin at the rear of the frame, is there one? Is it already drilled out, or never had one? Look on VTIgunparts.com for an exploded view of the gun to see where it should be. It is Pietta part number 28 (3414), and the picture is confusing because it shows the pin sideways insread if in line with the cylinder pin. On an Uberti it is part number 23 (000023)

I usually drill out the locating pin and unscrew the base pin, degrease it and the frame and reinstall it with Locktite. Before Locktiting the final replacement, assemble the pistol to let the Wedge orient the pin, then tap the locking pin hole to 6-32 for a short set screw. Then reassemble with Locktite and install the setscrew to hold the base pin from rotating.

In the case of a brass framed revolver, the internal threads may be damaged or displaced from recoil or wedge tightening and may not hold well, as brass is pretty soft for the purpose, and the reason that many brass framed revolvers become wall decorations.

Tad Houston · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2004, 06:46:19 PM »

Looks like there never was a locking pin. :roll:

Flint · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2004, 06:50:15 PM »

Could be that the brass is so much softer than the cylinder pin they can't drill a hole there, as it bisects the two parts to lock the rotation, and a tool would wander toward the softer material and not drill straight. That makes it fairly unrepairable unless a new pin was made with oversized threads. Yoiu could still try Locktite.

1860 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2004, 05:00:45 PM »

Silver solder works very well on these revolvers. Take a (THIN) file and cut a groove in the threads on the frame, it sounds a little scarry but you need a place for the solder to run in. Clean and degrease both parts, mount the frame in a vice with the cut groove up, heat the threads of the pin until it starts to get red, then heat the frame some, flux the pin and the frame. Useing pliers (naturally) , turn the pin into the frame to the desired position and continue heating and fluxing untill the solder runs in the groove from the hammer end, keep feeding it in until it appears where the pin meets the cylinder side of the frame. Silver solder is not all that strong but in a thin coat like this application, it holds up well. I did one of those "Reb" revolvers for a buddy years ago and it's still tight, he's still shooting it.

60

Tad Houston · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2004, 06:45:43 AM »

Can this be done with a propane torch or do i need an oxy/acelyene? Sounds like a great idea, think ill try it.

Flint · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2004, 04:57:43 PM »

You would have to be very careful with an oxy-acetelene. Personally, I wouldn't do it. Lock-tite does very well, and it stays cold.

1860 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2004, 12:04:49 PM »

Tad,

Yes, use a propane torch and get a new tank :grin:. The reason you heat the pin up first is because it's steel and the frame brass, The brass frame will heat up quicker than the steel if you try it assembled and the solder will flow in on the brass and not stick to the steel. That cut you make in the threads has got to be thin so as not to weaken the threads too much. If you are not practiced in using silver solder, get some brass and steel scraps and play around with it, it's not a weld but for certain applications where the 2 parts mate up well, it's really strong. The parts need to be clean, shiny and degreased...

This also works on a steel framed gun, no groove needed in the threads. Because you are working with all steel parts, clean everything good and make sure the pin seats properly-(wedge alignment), take the pin back out. Then heat up the threads of the pin and apply a thin coat of silver solder (SS) to them except the first couple of turns. With the frame mounted in a vice, heat the hole up real good, flux and turn the pin in while still heating. If you are using a locking pin then set that while everything is still hot. When it cools it will be tight as a drum and stay that way.

NOTE: Heating a steel frame can and will effect the case colors, depends on who made the gun and how hot you get it!!!

Flint,

Epoxy will also work, especialy if everything is fairly tight to begin with, and I use it alot. But on the brass framed guns where the brass will continued to "move" as the gun is used, silver solder seems to hold up better. Epoxy is strong but it can be broken loose with the right shock. I've had guns that had screws epoxyed in and by holding the right sized punch on the slot of the screw and giving it a firm tap with a hammer, they break free(alot depends on the type of glue and how much is up over the head of the screw). Whatever completes a repair is always the best thing to use and since the cylinder is so essential to the proper operation of these guns, I just like it to be as permanent as possible.

60

EdSmith · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2004, 08:18:25 PM »

I wonder if J.B weld would work ? edsmith

Flint · « **Reply #9 on:** August 01, 2004, 05:57:13 PM »

As long as the parts are degreased, the JB Weld will work, as it is an epoxy. A permanent Locktite will as well, or at least a semi-permanent. Most if the glues of that nature can be broken loose with heat if required.

m-g Willy · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2004, 07:20:47 PM »

Been there! The fastest way and easy way to fix it is to take the cylinder pin (arbor) off gun then peen shoulder where it fits against frame with a hammer all the way around pin. This will take the place of a thin washer.--Willy

Will52100 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 01, 2004, 06:58:19 PM »

With the tools I have my choice would be silver brazing for piece of mind, but without tools, I'd degrease everything and go with JB Weld, not the JB quick weld as it's not quite as strong or shock resistant though it is still strong.

If I remember right JB starts to de-bond at 500 deg.F., and is probably the best over the counter epoxy out there, it is the best I've tried. You can also thin it down a little bit with acetone, it just takes a little longer to cure.

Tad Houston · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2005, 01:46:24 PM »

Well i finally got around to fixing this brass frame revolver. I bought high force 44 silver solder with recomended flux from brownells, and also used their heat dam paste. cleaned & tinned the pin, cut the groove in the frame, and heated both together with flux till the solder flowed into the groove i cut. Its real tight now, seems to be a good solid fix. Now i just need to go shoot it, which brings me to the question- what load of fff pyrodex for this 36 caliber? Thanks will52100 for the idea, now i cant wait to try it out!

Will52100 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2005, 08:03:45 PM »

Glad to hear everything came out right, but it was 1860's sugestion to solder.

Tad Houston · « **Reply #14 on:** January 11, 2005, 05:02:50 AM »

My mistake. Thank you everyone for contributing, and especialy 1860 for the soldering idea- i think in the long run it will be the strongest.

Dalton Masterson · « **Reply #15 on:** January 18, 2005, 03:01:45 PM »

I blew the cylinder pin clear out of one of these there 51s. Its held together with JB Weld now, but It will never fire again. Just looks good. Good luck and hope it works out for ya. I would try about 12-15gr of 3f for starters. Work up to 20, but that might stress the brass. Opinions may vary. DM