Author Topic: Home defense handgun  (Read 1132 times)

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Offline minutemen1776

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Home defense handgun
« on: February 16, 2005, 08:49:49 AM »
I've been thinking of changing my home-defense handgun. Currently, I have a S&W 908, which is a medium-frame single-stack 9mm. I keep two extra mags and a Streamlight Scorpion handy as well. The S&W 908 was originally chosen to be primarily a handgun for CCW, which is a role it fills quite well. Frankly, though, I now carry concealed very little. I cannot pack in my workplace. My wife and I, with two very small children, do not go out all that often, and when we do it's to Wal-Mart, Target, the grocery store, etc. We tend to stay away from high-crime areas, and I do not like to carry when I'm wrangling with kids. So basically, about 95 percent of the time, my handgun only does duty as a car or nightstand gun. This makes me think I should get something better suited to this primary role.

I'm thinking of getting a larger handgun, perhaps a full-size model. I want to stick with 9mm, because I shoot it well, it's inexpensive, has less report for shooting indoors, and I enjoy the extra capacity. I've made up my mind on these points, so don't try to recruit me into the .40 S&W, .45 ACP or some other rival camp.  :grin: Also, please don't suggest a longgun for this duty. Because of the kids, I need to be able to safely secure my at-the-ready house gun, and it is easiest to do this with a handgun and a small gun safe. Also, a handgun (especially with a mounted light) allows me a free hand if I need to exit a safe room to secure one or both of the kids.

Anyway, I like the idea of an accessory rail for my house gun, which would allow me to mount a Streamlight M-3. I'm now looking at the Springfield XD, Beretta 92 Vertec, and Glock 17/19, all of which I can get for around $500. Any thoughts on these options? Does anyone have any other suggestions? Am I doing something that makes no sense?  :grin:

Offline TOGO

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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2005, 10:37:47 AM »
Get the gun and a dog. A lot more B&E's happen during day when the household is empty, a dog makes a great deturant, also the dog makes a great early warning system while your counting Z's, takes away his element of surprise and will give you the oportunity to arm yourself and dial 911.

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2005, 11:35:47 AM »
I like the XD well enough I'm going to pick one up this coming Saturday.  I was in the army when the change was made to the Berettas.  I didn't like them then and I've seen nothing since to change my mind.  Everyone I know that has a Glock loves them, they just don't fit my hand comfortably.
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Offline Dave in WV

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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2005, 03:24:51 PM »
For home defense I like a revolver since there is no magazine springs to take a set. Many claim it doesn't happen but springs will take a set if under full tension for long periods of time. I always down load my magazines two rounds if the mag is stored loaded.
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Offline Redhawk1

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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2005, 06:38:48 PM »
I have my carry guns handy, a Colt Defender in 45 ACP and my NAA 22MAG. I also have a S&W Model 66 .357 MAG. And if all else fails, I also have my 20 gauge with buckshot. Just in my bedroom at night. My son has a 9mm.  :grin: Man I love my guns.  :-D . Don't let me get to my gun safe, man you would be in for a gun fight.... :shock:  :eek:  :D
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Offline BoatVet

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Home defense handgun
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2005, 09:06:07 PM »
It sounds like you are pretty sure already what your getting so out of the choices you said I would get the XD9. It's 9mm, has the Accesory rail, loaded chamber indicator, finger and palm safeties. I have an XD40 I curently use as a duty weapon and home defense if needed. I do agree with the other replies as to the revolver and the dog too. I pity the person who breaks into my house at night, my two loving pit bulls sleeping on the couch would probably keep them busy long enough for me to go get my 6.5 inch Raging Bull and get ready for some as* kickin'. Now for a quick story not really for your question but to anyone who might read this since it is about home defense. This happened about a year ago. My grandmother has lived alone since my grandfather died over 10 years ago. So her faithful dog of 18 years died and she was to upset to get another right after. 2 weeks later while she was sleeping someone broke into her home and then upon hearing my grandmother was home, thankfully took off. My mother then took her old dog a boxer/mastiff mix over to my grandmothers "JUST UNTIL SHE WOULD GET HER OWN". A few days later my dad was out of town for the night and my mother heard someone going through the house, she grabbed a 10/22 rifle that had been under the bed for a looooooooong time and had no idea if it was loaded(it wasn't) or how to fire it. Luckily again upon hearing that someone was actually home the burgler took off out the front door. So anyways my grandmother would not give up Buster who was enjoying the perks of living with grandma and my mother went and found her a new pound puppy with a big bark. I will say that this was a very rare occurance in a rural community not a large city and both incidents could have been avoided had they not left themselves completely  vulnerable "THAT ONE TIME". Good night all.

Offline jgalar

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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2005, 01:42:10 AM »
I have a CZ75 and would highly recommend one. It will shoot at least as well as any other 9mm available and costs less than most. In my oppinion its the best buy in quality handguns.

http://www.czusa.com/01.detail.php?id=29

Offline minutemen1776

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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2005, 12:20:17 PM »
Thanks for all the input. I handled all three of my top contenders over the last week. I've ruled out the Beretta as being too big and bulky, not to mention pricey. I like the XD9 and the Glocks about equally well. I think, however, that I can get the best deal locally on a Glock. If so, it'll get the nod. I'll just have to handle the 17 and 19 again and see which feels best to me. Anyone have a recommendation for a weapon-mounted light for this gun?

Offline xnmr53

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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2005, 09:45:00 AM »
I know that you were asking about handguns, but my honest opinion is that if you're talking about a house gun, forget the handgun. Get a pump shotgun in riot configuration. It will be cheaper, easier to use in a stress situation, and is not as likely to send a bullet through the adjoining walls.

Offline while99

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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2005, 10:20:35 AM »
Each home situation is unique.  If your home is in an apartment building, you have to be concerned about putting a slug into an innocent neighbor.  I would favor a shotgun under those circumstances.  Federal Cartridge, at one time anyway, made a special sub-sonic 12 gauge shell loaded with number 2 shot.  This would put a real hurt on an intruder and minimize the potential of injuring your neighbors.

Offline Vern Humphrey

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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2005, 12:15:27 PM »
For a home defense weapon, I always advise a shotgun -- preferrably a 12 gauge pump.

The shotgun has several advantages.  First of all, you can shoot it better, especially in low light situations -- the positions of your hands give you clues as to where the gun is pointing.

Secondly, it's a stopper.  I have read a study that shows when a shotgun is used, the average number of rounds fired is one.

Third, it has a high intimidation factor.  When your knees are knocking and your teeth chattering (and they WILL be when you face an intruder), you're sending a message.  If you're holding a handgun, the message might be, "You can take this away from me."  With a shotgun, the message is, "This thing is about to go off!!"

Fourth, you can tailor your load -- I recommend measuring off the longest distance you might be able to get a shot in your home, then making a couple of dummy walls with 2X4s and wallboard and taking it to the range.  Place one at that max distance, and the other about 12 feet behind it.  A load of #6s or #8s will make a nasty hole in the first "wall" and you can see the effect on the second wall.  On the other hand, if you live way out in the woods like me, and have only your wife with you and don't have to worry about where the kids are when you shoot, 00 buck is quite effective.

I'm not "against" handguns as home defense weapons, but I grab my Colt M357 when I come awake, and only rely on it to get me a couple of feet to where my Ithaca M37 is standing in the corner.

Of course, one of the greatest dangers is coming home and walking into a burglary in progress.  THAT is when a handgun comes into its own.

Offline Somerled

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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2005, 01:45:00 PM »
I'd drop the Beretta from consideration and add the Sig P226 Rail. It is more expensive for a reason.

The girth of a full size 9mm is something to consider. Is there a possibility your wife or children may have to use this pistol some time in the future?

Whatever you get, use it. And don't put too much faith in the "nightstand pistol". (Why would anyone put a pistol in one?--it is an accident waiting to happen. It is also about the first place someone in your house without your knowledge would look for a pistol.) A firearm is just one small part of a home security plan. I suspect a home invasion is more likely to take place when you're somewhere else in the house. People frequently get followed home from an ATM or store as well. Many people don't bother to close their garage doors.

If you've already considered all the above, forgive me. ...

Aldersgater, I didn't see the second post until later. Good decision about the Beretta. For lights I'd first look at Surefire. It has been around for a long time. I suspect a lot of would disagree. But that is where I would START. I might find something better. Getting the best is real important when your family's life is on the line.
"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
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Offline gwhilikerz

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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2005, 01:48:29 PM »
I really don't see anything wrong with what you already have, especially since you are staying with 9mm.  But we all want a new gun :grin:

Offline minutemen1776

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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2005, 04:37:30 AM »
Again, thanks for the many helpful posts. Yet, there have been quite a few who remain insistent on recommending a shotgun for my needs. Like I said in my original post, however, that suggestion does not fit the bill for me. Let me explain, this time in greater detail.

Yes, I know the many virtues of the shotgun for home defense. Many bytes of Internet space have been consumed discussing this topic. A shotgun is indeed a manstopper, and a pump-action is simple and reliable to operate. Many also point to the intimidation factor of a shotgun, specifically the "ker-chunk" sound of a pump gun being chambered. Frankly, I'm not sure whether this touted benefit is real or ersatz. Perhaps it depends on the individual burglar or home invader.

The shotgun is no panacea that will solve every home defense scenario. Some have already acknowledged this. Given the right load for the situation (another debatable topic in its own right), I can think of no better weapon than the shotgun for barricading in a safe room. Yet, in my situation, I cannot simply barricade myself and wait. I have two small children, and I MUST leave my own quarters to move them to safety in the event of a threat. For this role, the shotgun has distinct liabilities.

As Gabe Suarez has stated in his book "Tactical Advantage," he prefers a handgun for indoors work because, notwithstanding the greater potency of longarms, they are so l-o-n-g. Personally, moving through my home with a shotgun, even one in riot configuration, would be cumbersome. Their are places where the length of the weapon would hinder a quick response to a threat, and the chance of an adversary grabbing a longgun is much greater in cramped quarters.

Also, a shotgun requires two hands to be operated. That being the case, the weapon would be useless to me in the (very likely) event I will need to carry one or both of my (probably sleepy) children to safety. In contrast, I can operate a pistol with one hand. If I also have a mounted light, I can likewise illumine my path with my weapon hand while using my other for something else. Try doing that with a shotgun.

There is also the matter of storing a shotgun. Though I referred generally to a "nightstand" gun, I do not actually store my handgun in the nightstand. Rather, my handgun and mags are stored in a small lockable gun safe attached high in the closet. Though I suppose I could get a larger gun safe for the shotgun, it would likely need to be on the floor and, therefore, more accessible to the kids. Not a good idea.

Finally, I should note that my handgun is not the only tool in the arsenal, so to speak. I realize that home invasions or other crises may occur when I'm elsewhere in the house. For that, I have an AR15 and a shotgun secured in a forward part of the house where they cannot be accessed by the children. So, really what I'm looking for now is just a "bump-in-night" and "secure-the-kids" weapon. On that front, I tried the Glocks again yesterday, and I like the 17 best. Coincidentally, I also looked at the Sig P226 Rail; it's very nice but the price tag is too steep compared to the other good choices I have.

Please excuse the long post, and I don't mean to offend or flame anyone for their posts. I just realized that I was getting a lot of good but generalized advice because I had previously failed to articulate precisely what I am looking for and what role it is intended to fill.

Offline Somerled

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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2005, 07:02:42 AM »
Aldersgater, that was a good post. You make a good point about the shotgun. You have the "nightstand" pistol in a good place.

Are you a Methodist? Judging by the handle, you might be.

The Sig P226 Rail is pricey. I'd have to save awhile to get one myself. I used to carry P226s as a duty weapon. There are a lot of sub $400 re-certified P226s around, but it would be tricky to mount a light on them. You might as well keep the S&W 908 in that case.

May you and your family experience lifetimes free of trouble.
"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
President Theodore Roosevelt, San Francisco, Calif., May 13, 1903

Offline minutemen1776

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Home defense handgun
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2005, 11:35:40 AM »
Thanks, Somerled. Indeed, I am a Methodist and have been for about a decade now. When my wife and I married, I was Baptist and she was Catholic. Hence, we are now both Methodists.  :-)

BTW, my money came through early, and I picked up the Glock 17 this afternoon. It's sweet! :-D I expect that a Streamlight M-3 may soon follow, but I'd like to see a Surefire first. Unfortunately, no one around here seems to have them. I looked at the Glock weapon-mounted light. It is about $10-20 less than the Streamlight, but I like the aesthetics of the Streamlight better. I'll still keep my eyes peeled for a Surefire. Barring that, I think the Streamlight will be mine when another $100 gets into my pocket.

Offline Somerled

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« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2005, 04:34:23 PM »
Aldersgater, my wife is a United Methodist pastor. I have been a member for about 35 years. Heart strangely warmed ... ole John Wesley.

Glad you enjoy the Glock. I've always liked the Model 19 a little better for some reason. It seems to balance better for me. I used the 17 a lot when I was a firearms trainer. It will be quite a change from the 908.

You might check out brownells.com on the lights. There are some other places to look, but I can't remember them at present.
"Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
President Theodore Roosevelt, San Francisco, Calif., May 13, 1903

Offline mrlizzzard

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« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2005, 03:03:29 AM »
12 or 20 ga. pump for me,I inform everyone that it's loaded, my wife who rarely shoots is as capable to defend herself as I am.I can run that gun in my sleep.
lizzzard

Offline tbull55

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« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2005, 04:53:08 AM »
I keep a Ruger P90 (45acp) in the nightstand!!  I also like the Ruger P93 (9mm) w/15round mag!!
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