Author Topic: Rock Island vs. Springfield GI  (Read 4666 times)

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Offline Pruts

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Rock Island vs. Springfield GI
« on: January 10, 2005, 01:04:59 PM »
Fellas,

I'm very interested in getting my first 1911.  I'm a bit of a WWII buff, and I'm thinking about getting either the RI or SA GI.  Which would you pick?  I know the RI is about $150 cheaper (which I like), but is there much difference in performance and quality?  Another part of me thinks I should spend more money for a high-quality piece that I would keep forever.  So many choices.  Thanks in advance!

Pruts

Offline williamlayton

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Rock Island vs. Springfield GI
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2005, 01:51:34 AM »
The overwhelming opinion of professionals, well, smiths is the SA is a very good choice for a base weapon to begin a pro build.
While some like their RI's the majority of what I would call, very knowledgable, enthusiast like the SA over the RI for a lot of functional, as well as cosmetic reasons.
You can do a search through a couple of the forums here and see many comments which will lead you to the same conclusions.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Pruts

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Rock Island vs. Springfield GI
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2005, 02:47:17 AM »
Yeah, I did look through many of the other postings and got the sense that the SA is a better platform to customize.  But that makes me wonder if it's worth buying a gun I need to put money into or to spend more and get a higher-end 1911 that is good as-is.  Any thoughts?  

Pruts

Offline Mikey

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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2005, 02:50:48 AM »
Pruts - spend the extra $150 and get the Springfield, it's a better platform to start with and is good as it comes from the box.  Mikey.

Offline Savage

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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2005, 12:57:40 PM »
As you are new to the 1911 platform, my advice, would be to spend a few extra bucks and get the SA loaded or one of the mid range Kimbers. Few are happy with the tiny sights and lack of refinements found on the mil-spec guns.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline ppcrusa

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Rock Island vs. Springfield GI
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2005, 02:29:33 PM »
Springfield vs. RIA... A fair comparison since they both are crap.
I'd opt for a Colt 1991A1 instead.
Having owned a Springfield and having problems that were not resolved by the factory to my satisfaction, I would say NO to Springfield.
RIA? Heard decent things. Nothing special. Warranty I could not tell you about.

Oh yeah, for what it is worth, I own a SW1911. I tried a Para Ordnance, SA, and in the past I had a Springfield Armory too.

Offline greenjeans

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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2005, 04:40:20 PM »
I have the SA GI, Champion, and Ultra Compact. Very pleased with all of them. Had a loose sight on the Ultra, but other than that no problems at all. Good pistols for the $$.
Romans 8:38,39

Offline BamBams

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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2005, 06:06:55 PM »
Start looking at the base model Kimbers.  They retail around $500 or so, and you'll have something that will not only fit your hand really nice, but it'll usually shoot much more accurately than SAs, RIAs, or Colts.  Kimber quality generally runs higher in the manufacturing.
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Offline Pruts

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Rock Island vs. Springfield GI
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2005, 03:42:28 AM »
BamBams,

That was my thought: spend a little more money and have a gun I won't have to customize after I get it home.  I looked at a nice used Kimber yesterday, but it was almost $700 (can't tell ya the model).  Any particular model of Kimber I should be looking out for that can be had for a reasonable price?  Being my first 1911, I don't really want to break the bank.  Thanks for all your help fellas!

Pruts

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2005, 04:02:10 AM »
Would never buy anything not Colt in 1911
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline BamBams

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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2005, 07:57:39 PM »
Yes, just look at the basic Kimber custom model.  Have a look at the used, Series I, models also.  The series I Kimbers can be likened somewhat to the Series 70 Colts (in design only) in that they do not incorporate a Schwartz "type" of safety system - which is a good thing in terms of overall reliability and simplicity of the action.  

If you can afford a Springfield Armory gun, you can probably afford a Kimber for just a few bucks more, and you'll come out ahead in terms of the value for dollar spent.  You're probably already seeing that Kimbers hold their value well over the years.  If not, just peruse the gun auction sites and see for yourself.

Springfield Armory, while they are "usually" quite shootable, and I don't want to start a flame on this, but in my view, their Board of Directors are trying to turn the company into the Wal-Mart of the 1911 world.  The ratio of "Lemons" from Springfield seems to be going up rather quickly from my vantage point.  A trend that should never even exist to begin with.  They should charge more, give more pay raises, and slow that ship down lest their reputation dive into the depths of mediocrity like American car manufacturers did for almost half a century.

The frames are outsourced overseas, and 90% of the guts are metal injection molded, etc.  It's not truly an "American Made" product which rubs ME the wrong way.  Next time you fondle one, flip it upside down and look for the word "Brazil" stamped on the frame.  All in all though, if you buy a Springfield, and it happens to be not a lemon (there's still a really good chance it won't be one if you hurry) you've got a shootable 1911 for a good price, and you can be quite pleased with it.  Here's a tip if you go with Springfield.  Buy it from "Davidsons."  If it turns out to be a lemon, they will send you a another one in less than 5 working days, and before you even send the lemon back!  Davidson's rocks!

BTW - Kimber also uses metal injection molding nowadays, but the fact that their manufacturing quality control and tolerances are generally tighter, keeps them ahead of Springfield and preserves their reputation for accurate shooting pistols.

Colt's quality has sadly gone wayyyyyy down, while the cost of one has risen.  They've been a company that has had a LOT of trouble over the past two decades or so, and sadly, it OFTEN shows up in the quality of the workmanship.  Great raw materials, but some pissed off union guy is now working on them - or refusing to work on them.  They seem to be surviving nowadays purely on name recognition.

I've seen enough Colts on my bench, during the past 20 years or so,  that should have never even left the factory.  I should have taken photos - for some of what I've seen is truly shameful and reflects poorly on an American manufacturer. I will grant them this:  Their 1911 frames, slides, etc,  are still a decent foundation to build a great custom gun upon - but you'll pay for that with a second mortgage of the farm too!  Might as well just go andf buy a Les Baer or Wilson cuz it's a faster path to the same end result and may cost less.

A new friend of mine is a good example of the pitfalls to avoid.  He only had a couple hundred dollars and wanted a 1911 so bad that he went out a bought a "Rock River" 1911 for less than $300.00 without talking to anyone first.  He loved it so much (his first 1911), that he started shooting alot.  The next thing ya know.  This pistol is on my bench because the sights suck.  I changed them out with night sights and didn't charge him any labor.  The parts cost about $120.00.  A few weeks and more rounds later, it's back on my bench because he wants it to feed semi-wadcutters.  I charged him a mere $30.00 for throating and polishing.  A month after that, and he's not happy with the way the disconnector rides under the slide.  I fix that and do a trigger & action job for him for free.  It would have cost him about $150.00 anywhere else.   So now he's really loving his pistol.  How much has he spent on it now?  How much would he have spent if he didn't have a friend like me?  What is his Rock River now worth?  See where I'm going?

Before anyone comes after me, let me say that I realize my criticisms  come across harsh. It's not my intention to offend anyone, rather to be honest about where we are at these days.  When it comes to firearms, or anything else to defend a life with, I have very high expectations when it comes to quality and value.  Always remember me as that guy who tosses out 90% of a brand new Kimber Gold Match.  *laughing at my own anal retention*
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Offline williamlayton

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Rock Island vs. Springfield GI
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2005, 12:20:24 AM »
You did good Bams.
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TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Pruts

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Rock Island vs. Springfield GI
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2005, 09:58:44 AM »
BamBams,

Thank you very much for your thoughtful and thorough response.  I will certainly take them into account as I continue looking for my first 1911.  It may be some time before it happens, I have a Merriam turkey hunt in my very near future that is eating up 1911 funds.  Priorities, I guess (but that's not to say I wouldn't throw money at a great deal either).  Thanks again!

Pruts

Offline 44 Man

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Rock Island vs. Springfield GI
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2005, 07:23:36 PM »
Well, I got to handle both last night.  A friend has a Rock Island and a SA GI 1911 for sale.  Other than the SA has high profile sights they were identical.  Both had decent trigger pulls.  And guess what.  The Rock Island was the nicer of the two!  It was much better fitted.  Both were new and unfired.  The hammer on the Springfield looked like the serrations had been put in by a gorilla.  They were crooked and didn't match the curve of the hammer spur.  That gun should never have left the factory like that.  If they miss that glaring a problem, (it was really ugly!) what did they do that you could not see?  I was immeadiately drawn to the Rock Island.  I checked it a little closer and it also has a nice throated barrel.  Were I shoping for another right now I would buy the Rock Island, especially considering it was priced at $350 and the SA at $650!  44 Man
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Offline unclenick

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Rock Island vs. Springfield GI
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2005, 04:33:15 PM »
I am interested in 44 Man's comments, and I agree with Bambam's comment on raw material.  My old Series 70 Colt and both a series 70 and a series 80 Commander I worked on over a decade ago have all had more fifteen thousand rounds through them since then, and have all kept their fitting and accuracy surprisingly well.  My 12 year-old SA I've shot loose three times and re-barreled once in that same period.  Maybe 25,000 rounds have gone through it.   The steel just hasn't held its shape as well as the Colt's has.  Nonetheless, it was well under $300 when I got it, and since I like working on my guns anyway I don't regret having got it.  The average owner won't shoot enough to see the wear and tear I have, but if I were an active practical pistol competitor and expecting to shoot that much every couple of years, I would build on a Colt just to keep the shop time down.
 
If RI has taken over from where Springfield was a dozen years ago, then good luck to them.  I haven't had an opportunity to play with one to see for myself?  That investment casting is taking over from forging is undoubtedly the case, but done well that shouldn't be a problem.  The alloys and technology have advanced significantly even in the last decade.
 
Nick

Offline 44 Man

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Rock Island vs. Springfield GI
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2005, 10:58:54 AM »
I was told by my friend that the slide and frame on the Rock Island are forged????  Don't know myself, but I was very impressed with the gun.  No, it's not a Kimber as it has no bells and whistles.  But it was a very well built, solid 1911 for $350!  I may still buy it myself.  44 Man
You are never too old to have a happy childhood!