Author Topic: My First loaded CF cartridge.... more questions than answers (Read 689 times)

whitedogone · « **on:** February 05, 2005, 02:37:21 PM »

Here it is....

Here's what I loaded.

RP case (untrimmed)
Winchester SR primer
26.3 Gr Winchester 748
55 grain Hornady V-max
OAL of 2.26 "

Now for the questions... #1-The load was out of the Winchester free handout manual. But, they use a Winchester case. I have no idea if the PR case will make a difference or not. I can't find any loads that give data for the 748 (the only powder I currently have for the 223) using the PR cases. #2- The load in the book uses a 55 gr projecticle but not the V-max that I used. OK or not? #3- Is 26.3 Grs. to hot to start with? I found loads using the 748 from 22.7 gr to 30.0 gr. #4- The OAL on the WW 45 gr. value pack (shown here next to my first load)that shoots so well in my Handi is OAL of 2.20" Compared to my loading of OAL of 2.26. Now all the manuals show the OAL max for the .223 at 2.26". With the long throats of our Handi's shouldn't I keep my loads at the max or even longer (like Jeff223). I'm confused I can load for shotshell with ease but this CF stuff is confusing. Please don't tell me to read more manuals as I have been pouring over them for weeks now. WDO

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2005, 02:53:33 PM »

Looks like it's not bad compared to a couple loads here...

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=223%20Remington&Weight=55&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source=

Steve's Pages calls for 22.7 to 30 grs W748...

http://stevespages.com/224_8_55.html

raynor · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2005, 02:57:55 PM »

#1 Your load is pretty much at to low end, powder wise. Not a problem in your cases.

#2 Your good to go.

#3 That's a starting load in my Lyman book, your ok.

#4 As long as your chamber is cut long enough to close, your fine.
Good rule to follow is: Seat your bullets at least as deep as they are wide. A .224 bullet should be seated with at least .224 down in the neck.

The load you describe is a basic starting load and you can work up from that, just keep watch for pressure signs in your primers.

JPH45 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2005, 03:28:56 PM »

Handout booklets like the Winchester you refer to almost always only list a maximum load. The rule of thumb is to reduce the data 10% and work up fom there, usually in 1 grain increments. This will work well when you have changed a component or two. When using exactly the same components, I only reduce by 5% and work up.

I rarely if ever have the same components, and I rarely if ever choose a midpoint load between that of several manuals. Choose one and work with it. That way you know where you are.

raynor is right, the rule of thumb for bullet seating depth is to be at least as deep as the bullet diameter. Most OAL are established to insure feeding through a magazine. The Handi doesn't have that restriction. Seating longer can reduce the maximum pressures, but I doubt it would be by enough to make a real difference. If you are seating a bullet longer than the listed OAL but still using a maximum listed charge, I would still consider the charge to be maximum, especially with a bottleneck case.

You're doing good whitedogone, keep it up!

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2005, 04:02:04 PM »

Reloading CF is different than shotgun in that you can exchange things in the recipe like primer brands and case brands as long as you stick to the same type.. a CCI small rifle primer and a Federal small rifle primer can be exchanged, just don't exchange types... IE from a standard to a magnum primer. Also, a load that calls out a 55gr ABC bullet is just fine with a 55gr DEF used instead. There are two instances that this doesn't apply. One is with solid construction bullets like the Barnes X. They develop higher pressure with the same powder charge as compared to lead core bullets. The other is with jacketed vs cast bullets. You can use a cast bullet of equal weight in a recipe calling for a jacketed but not the other way around. Again, the jacketed bullet will develop higher pressure with the same charge of powder than a cast bullet will.

These are the facts as I understand them. If I'm wrong, someone speak up before I kill myself. :-D

Ian

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2005, 04:22:50 PM »

Well put Haywire!! :agree:

Donaldo · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2005, 04:23:07 PM »

I think you have a good starting load there. The very best hand load that I have found in my 223 Handi so far is 27.0 of W748 with a 52 grain Sierra MK. It shoots under 1" at 100 yds. It also is the only handload so far that I have found that shoots as good as the WW45JHP stuff. However....if I get 0.20 grains below or above this load the groups open up to 1.6 to 2.0 inches. So don't give up, you may just only be 0.20 grains from a hummer of a load.

jeff223 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2005, 06:03:44 PM »

whitedogone,this is the only picture of a round of 223 ammo that i have reloaded, it isnt that good of one but you might be able to see how long the OAL is.the OAL is 2.5 with a Nosler 55gr BT bullet.the one you are using is about the same bullet.ive used both and they shoot about the same.you can go longer in OAL but dont go shorter than whats listed in the reloading data.shorter lenghts or seating the bullets deeper in the case than whats stated can cause pressures to rise. longer lengths you will want to stay just off the lands with your bullet and you will be OK.

you may find and im sure you will,your gun will shoot the best up near a max load.the smaller caliber centerfire rifles seem to like it there at max.im talking 221,222 and 223s.in the bigger centerfire rifles they seem to shoot best just down from max.this isnt written in stone,you just never know until you try.

reloading is alot of fun and from the looks of it you are doing a fine job.any questions just ask and im sure there are many here to help.

shaner · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2005, 01:32:48 AM »

hey haywire , what law school did u graduate from , that was well put on the reloading difference didnt one of my exwives have you as her attorney?

i :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

bajabill · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2005, 05:03:50 AM »

The tapering region of a boattail base doesnt count for the length required for good engagement with the neck. So boattails will need to be seated deeper to obtain that one diameter of support from the neck. The OAL is not important for a single shot, but it is the easiest way to keep things somewhat consistent for the same bullet. The different bullets types and makes will require different OAL if you want to start them a consistent distance from the rifling.

whitedogone · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2005, 10:47:01 AM »

Jeff, I don't know how you can get 2.5" OAL without that bullet falling out on the floor. WDO

Coastwatcher · « **Reply #11 on:** February 06, 2005, 11:31:39 AM »

Jeff223, with seating that long is the bullet touching the lands? If not how far from them is it? In my.223 I've been trying about .010 off. So far that where my most accurate loads have been. My NEF is a 1991 vintage and doesn't seem to have as long a throat as the newer ones.

jeff223 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2005, 11:52:52 AM »

i must be just off the lands.i have never been able to reach the lands with my bullets yet but im not complaining any.i have smoked them with a candle and no land markes.on my Contender 223 ammo i have not trouble reaching the lands.i use the same load but i seat the bullet deeper for that gun.

the only thing i have to measure with is a tape measure,i dont have a caliper or anything like that.i just eyeballed one of my handloads and the tape measure says 2 and 1/2 inches.maybe the Nosler BTs have a longer plastic tip than the V Max bullets.im out of the V max or i would compair the two.

im shooting with my gun smith friend on Sundays and i will have him measure the ammo for me.that will give a better measurement.i will let you know what he says

i never felt i needed a caliper.i have always had very good luck with my reloads except when i was reloading for that old H&R 357mag rifle i have back again.i never could get that thing to shoot worth beans.i think the barrel is shot on that one.now with my 357max Contender thats a differant story.that gun and barrel are up to snuff and is a great shooter.

JPH45 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2005, 12:33:59 PM »

Hey jeff223, you wanna swap that 357 for a 45-70? PM me.

jeff223 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2005, 01:04:26 PM »

jph45,this rifle is a H&R rifle that was made before NEF got into the picture.i sold this rifle some time ago but the guy didnt pay me for it and he gave it back to me.it has 4 barrels that were hand made by some basement gun smith and the barrels wont fit on anything new.i have a 30 herret barrel,a 30x44mag wildcat barrel,a 357mag barrel and a 444 barrel.this picture shows 3 of the 4 barrels.the one missing is the herret barrel and that one has a peep sight on it.

i would love a 45-70 but i dont know why

i would have to sell this as a package.like i said the barrels wont work on anything else but the old frames.none shoot very good and the 444 kicks like hell :-D this is a very light gun.