25 acp breech plug(is it worth it)

[jake]

I'm concidering a 25 acp breech plug and want to know if it gets rid of the crud ring.I don't remember having a crud ring with pyrodex,but i sure have it with 777 and my gun (209-50)doesn't group like it use to.

it make's since that a 209 primer is to hot causing the bullet tojunp of the powder before it burns.

thanks for looking

[Keith Lewis]

My stainless .50cal Omega was terrible from the start loading any sabots but after one shot with 777 it was impossible without almost completely cleaning the rifle. I got the .25ACP conversion and it fixed about 80% of the problem. I can now shoot 777 but I still get a little crud ring which I can get out with a wet swab between shots. Keep in mind my barrel was apparentlly very very tight. Some claim it totally fixes the crud ring problem. I have since decided to only shoot APP or Black Mag3 with the BM3 getting my approval as the best thing yet. A secondary benefit from the .25ACP conversion is that the primer is a lot easier to load than the 209 primer especially when your hands are cold. For hunting it is nice for that reason and I can also carry spare primed brass in my pocket and feel a little safer than just carrying loose 209 primers in the pocket. If you are not a reloader and have to get material to load the primers that is a consideration also.

[Redhawk1]

My stainless .50cal Omega was terrible from the start loading any sabots but after one shot with 777 it was impossible without almost completely cleaning the rifle. I got the .25ACP conversion and it fixed about 80% of the problem. I can now shoot 777 but I still get a little crud ring which I can get out with a wet swab between shots. Keep in mind my barrel was apparentlly very very tight. Some claim it totally fixes the crud ring problem. I have since decided to only shoot APP or Black Mag3 with the BM3 getting my approval as the best thing yet. A secondary benefit from the .25ACP conversion is that the primer is a lot easier to load than the 209 primer especially when your hands are cold. For hunting it is nice for that reason and I can also carry spare primed brass in my pocket and feel a little safer than just carrying loose 209 primers in the pocket. If you are not a reloader and have to get material to load the primers that is a consideration also.

I have to second what Keith said here except, I use triple7 instead of the Black Mag3.  

[Oldsnow]

In my opinion it is not worth it, I was having the same problem you are having and I went the same route you are thinking about going. I went back to Pyrodex and (standard CCI 209 primers) At the end of the day you will have to clean your muzzle loading rifle know mater what kind of primers or powder you use.
 By the time you buy a 25 conversion and the tools it takes to prime and deprime your cases it will cost you about $100 bucks if not more. Not counting the time and trouble it takes to do this. This is more money then most Hunters spend all year shooting there rifles.
 If you want good groups Try (standard CCI 209 primers) and clean between each shot with a spit patch, it made my T/C 209x50 shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yd's.

[jake]

thanks for you're help men,I do reload and already have all the tools so I might try the 25 acp and see what happens,if I don't buy it for 60.00 i'll spend it on something else anyway.

thanks again

[Redhawk1]

In my opinion it is not worth it, I was having the same problem you are having and I went the same route you are thinking about going. I went back to Pyrodex and (standard CCI 209 primers) At the end of the day you will have to clean your muzzle loading rifle know mater what kind of primers or powder you use.
 By the time you buy a 25 conversion and the tools it takes to prime and deprime your cases it will cost you about $100 bucks if not more. Not counting the time and trouble it takes to do this. This is more money then most Hunters spend all year shooting there rifles.
 If you want good groups Try (standard CCI 209 primers) and clean between each shot with a spit patch, it made my T/C 209x50 shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yd's.

It sure would not cost over $100 if he did not have all the tools. Closer to about $70.00 but he reloads so it would only be the cost of the 25ACP plug.

jake, put an add in our muzzleloading classified and see if someone has one for sale. Maybe Oldsnow still has his if it did not work for him. You my save a few bucks.  

[Wolfhound]

In my opinion it is not worth it, I was having the same problem you are having and I went the same route you are thinking about going. I went back to Pyrodex and (standard CCI 209 primers) At the end of the day you will have to clean your muzzle loading rifle know mater what kind of primers or powder you use.

I've got a conversion for my Omega not because it reduces crud (although it does) and not to eliminate flyers (never had any anyway), but to eliminate blowback into the "action". I don't remove the stock for everyday cleaning (don't want to change POI since I shoot to 200yds) and was having trouble with residue ending up under the barrel. With the 25 ACP conversion I don't get any of this anymore. I just remove the stock after the season for a good cleaning and oil the barrel well.

I did have to buy the hand primer and shellholder. It was 15 or 16 bucks plus shipping from Midway USA (lee autoprime).

[Bullseye]

Not worth it to me.  I can control the crud ring through other methods.  I have no problems with accuracy to cure.  I do have blowback, but it wipes off.  For me using the 25ACP is just one more thing to take care of since the brass needs to be cleaned and reprimed.  I have also seen discussion about the action closing tight and the brass needing trimmed.

Seems it would just add more work to cure problems I do not have.  I actually bought one, starting thinking more about it and sold it before I ever tried it.

[Keith Lewis]

[do have blowback, but it wipes off.  For me using the 25ACP is just one more thing to take care of since the brass needs to be cleaned and reprimed.  
The brass is not a problem for me as I have about 500 cases. I used to pick up brass at a shooting site and no one saved .25ACP brass. Go figure. Since I started shooting Black Mag3 cleaning the brass is not a problem. With 777 or Pyrodex I just threw the brass away as if you don't drop it in cleaner within a day it gets nasty. Black Mag3 doesn't mess the brass up any more than smokeless.

[elmerdeer]

The only time I have blowback is when I take over 30-40 shots and the breech plug gets clogged, so I just have a few breech plugs with me at the range and change evert 20-25 shots. No problem with blowback and 1"groups with 3pellets T/7 and 250sst's. No change for me.

[bubba]

I ordered mine today. I am looking forward to trying it in my Encore. Since I cant get black mag or app without paying the extra shipping fees I will use 777. Every time I would order the other powders and pay an extra 20 bucks each time it wont take long to have the price of the plug in shipping. Hopefully APP and BM3 will become more readily available in my area, but, with the accuracy I get with 777 90 grains of ff and a 250 sst I would have to see a big difference as far as cleaning and accuracy before I would consider changing anyway.

[Keith Lewis]

. Black Mag3 doesn't mess the brass up any more than smokeless.[/quote]
Sorry; I have to take part of that last post statement back. Black Mag'3 does finally corrode the brass if left unattended for a long time. I guess dropping in plain water will stop the action but it is not safe for brass. It does not corrode steel but it attacks brass. If you are trying to save .25 cases plan accordingly.