Author Topic: info needed, 1886 Winchester 45-70 (Read 1165 times)

MSP Ret · « **on:** February 11, 2005, 02:10:28 PM »

Hello again, I'm here looking for more info. This time it's on an old Winchester. A guy I know just dropped it off at my house. He has had it for years and it came from a friends father I told him I'd try to get some info on it knowing someone here could point me in the right direction.
It is a 1886 Winchester in 45-70, steel cresent buttplate, pistol grip stock , full length magazine, hand checkered pistol grip and forearm but worn a bit smooth from years of use, the forearm has a steel cap on the front, it has a hull Octagon barrel just a shade under 26" long, serial #147xxxA, flip up ladder sight on the barrel appx 6" ahead of the chamber end which appears to be marked for up to 300 yards, there appears to be a plastic or horn pistol grip cap with the words "Winchester Repeating Arms Co." encircling it held on by one center screw. It's obviously been a hunting gun all it's life with a browned patina over a lot of the blue. This is borne out by the stories of it's earlier use...Thanks for any help..What year was it made? Whats it worth? Is there a Winchester historian or address where he could get the history of this rifle traced to keep with it?....<><.... :grin:

John Traveler1 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2005, 08:23:08 PM »

According to the oldguns.com webesite, your winchester 1886 was made in 1908-09.

From your description, it should be a choice find for either a winchester collector or a shooter.

John

John Y Cannuck · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2005, 12:11:35 AM »

Sounds like a beautiful peice, that flip up rear sight alone is quite valuable. I think you should contact the good folks at the Cody museum, and go the extra mile, get this rifle lettered.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2005, 01:54:48 AM »

Thanks guys, I may call Cody but from the meager invest I have been able to do Cody has no records from 147000 to 157???. Was there a fire at the Winchester plant that destroyed some records or am I confusing Winchester with another gun manufacturer? I will continue working on this for him as time goes on. Any approximate price ranges of value out there for this gun?....<><.... :grin:

Shorty · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2005, 12:43:16 PM »

The pistol grip, ladder sight and checkering were optional features that add value to your piece. Because of the wear and finish it's probably a wash on value. Flaydermans Guide suggests ~$850.

86er · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2005, 10:54:35 AM »

MSP, given the date of manufacture of your Winchester, and the aforementioned factory options, it could be wearing a rapid taper octagon barrel of nickel steel. Is the barrel diameter the same as the magazine tube, or a little smaller? These are indicators of special order pencil barrels. If the barrel is nickel steel, it may be so indicated on the left side of the barrel, below the rear sight. If not marked there, it may be marked on the bottom flat near the receiver. Removing the forend will allow you to read the barrel steel composition. :-)

MSP Ret · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2005, 01:57:51 PM »

Hi 86er, Thanks for the reply. The barrel does say "NICKEL STEEL" below and to the left rear of the rear sight. The barrel across the flats near at the muzzle appears to be approximately the same diameter of the magazine tube. Does this mean something to the value or collector? The owner told me to take it out and shoot it if I wanted to, I do and will, but that steel crescent butt plate looks a bit worrisome, and I have a 45-70 that I enjoy shooting, it does however wear a recoil pad!!. I told him I would like to shoot a deer with it this year and he said OK. He also said he shot it once at the range about 15 years ago and put it away. His wife doesn't want guns in the house so he keeps it wrapped in a blanket in the attic!!! He also said he would never get rid of it, just keep it because he has had i so long and it was his buddies father (I think that was the story). He gave me a box with 6 shells left. Remington of fairly recent manufacture 405 grain SP's. Standard Green/Yellow box ammo.
By your forum name and observations so far it seems you are knowledgeable about these 1886 Winchesters. The Cody Museum charges about $55.00 to $120.00 for a check depending on membership or not and just what you want. I doubt if he will spend that since he's not a "gun nut". Do you have any idea of it's worth?...Thanks....<><.... :grin:

86er · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2005, 04:16:14 PM »

The factory 405 grain ammo is OK, but loaded down to original pressures out of respect to the hundreds of older, black powder arms that remain in use.
Your nickel steel barrel itself is a special order item. Although Winchester used those barrels on all of the lightweight guns, 26" rapid taper barrels were not standard. Not having seen the gun, it's difficult to establish a dollar value. An educated guess, with a 50% finish factor, would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500.
The fact that collectors place a premium on the older 1886s is lost to me. I am quite the opposite, owning a fair number of '86 Winchesters, with all but one being post 1910 guns. I search out later guns with different calibers and features than standard guns would have. Contrary to what is generally accepted, Winchester continued to make guns of whatever caliber and configuration a customer desired.
You have a nice gun in your possession, one that still has the capability of making a fine hunting rifle. Handloading is the way to go. If you don't load, there are a number of companies that make high velocity .45-70 ammo.

:grin:

MSP Ret · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2005, 02:24:31 AM »

Thanks very much 86er, I like older calibers and guns but the price is of a good old gun is mostly prohibitive. I do have a couple of nice old 97 Winchesters, a couple of nice LC Smith Shotguns and a beautiful pristine 71 Winchester Deluxe (bought on our honeymoon and forever referred to as the "Honeymoon Gun"). I do reload and do so for the 45-70. I really enjoy shooting my single shot 45-70 H&R Handi Rifle and look forward to hopefully hunting with this nice old 1886 Winchester....<><.... :grin: