California - Gun rights are for States, not individuals

[Yukon Jack]

Stance on Guns for Individuals Rejected Court Slaps Down Ashcroft Policy
By Rene Sanchez
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 6, 2002; Page A19

LOS ANGELES, Dec. 5 -- A federal appeals court ruling in defense of California's ban on assault weapons has rejected a new Justice Department policy asserting that the Second Amendment affords individuals, not just state militias, broad rights to own guns.

In a 72-page opinion, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit said today that Attorney General John D. Ashcroft's policy change, announced last year, has no legal standing. The ruling conflicts with another federal appeals court ruling in the 5th Circuit last year that formed the legal basis for Ashcroft's decision.

Ashcroft's move to expand the scope of the Second Amendment from a collective to individual right revamped a federal stance that had been in place for decades and has since brought a wave of new court challenges to some gun laws and criminal cases involving weapons possession. Ashcroft first outlined his views in a letter to the National Rifle Association, then in a formal memo to federal prosecutors.

Gun control groups that have been worried that Ashcroft's position would weaken gun laws praised today's court decision.

Matt Nosanchuk, litigation director of the Violence Policy Center in Washington, said in a statement that the 9th Circuit's view "affirms the constitutionality of our nation's toughest law banning assault weapons" and presents a "comprehensive rebuttal" to the view held by the 5th Circuit and Ashcroft. The 5th Circuit's decision has been appealed to the Supreme Court.

The case that was before the 9th Circuit focused on an assault weapons ban that California approved in 1999, which is more far-reaching than federal statutes.

It prohibits the manufacture, import or sale of any semiautomatic rifles or pistols that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition or can be easily concealed. It also requires people who owned such weapons before the law took effect to register or relinquish them.

A group of those owners had challenged the law in federal court, partly by citing rights under the Second Amendment.
 :x
© 2002 The Washington Post Company

[Mikey]

Oh Jack, didja ever expect kalifornica to say or do anything different.  Just about the only good people in that state are the ones who log onto these forums or who are hunters and shooters.  Doancha know that every single cotton-pickin' psalm singing liberal assed demicrap apointed judge er politician in that danged state ain't gonna agree with anything that anyone else sez.  And who cares if one federal appeals court judge out there disagrees with another federal appeals court judge - the real decision is made by the Supreme Court.  You will notice that he didn't (rather, couldn't) disagree with any of those.

And, who is gonna listen to another demicrap badmouthin' John Ashcroft.  Good Grief, the very first time you get someone in front of a camera who can make a decision you get nothin' but hesitation and resistance from those who can't.  I saw an incredible interview this morning on the morning news with a former G.W. Bush head of something or another, who said that the best thing to happen to the Republican Party was the klintons.  He said they were like bad pennies, you can't get rid of them.  They can't stay out of the limelight or away from a camera, which is good for us becuase everytime they start poppin' off about something, people start turning to the Republicans for a better interpretation.  I thought it was a great interview.

I think the best thing to do is offer anybody who wants to leave kalifornica one years free membership to the NRA or GOA or 2nd Amendment Foundation and a years free use of the nearest rifle/pistol ranges.  The other thing we can do is make it illegal not to own an assault rifle or some such in any state bordering kalifornica, just to keep the liberals out,, or in as the case may be.  Didn't they do something like that in Georgia.  

So, here is how it goes - everybody who likes guns or who has guns leaves the land of kalifornica.  All that's left are the Hollywood, criminal, liberal and demicraptic types.  Guess who's gonna win.  And that might be the end of that story.  Mikey.

[L-Roy]

Nuff said!

[Dand]

Here is what I have sent my senators and representative:

Paraphrased From Anch Daily News 12-7-02:

[9th Circuit court ruling that the Second Amendment does not grant Americans a personal right to own firearms.]

Dear Senator Stevens and Congressman Young: This decision is a good reason to resume the process of creating a separate court for the northwestern US and for getting new judges appointed to our courts.

I'm sure you are supportive of President Bush's efforts to get good people appointed to the bench.

Please do whatever you can to reverse this silly decision.

thank you

[ShadowMover]

I guess we can expect that states will now have freedom of speech and be free from unreasonable searches too   . This is just more big government grabbing control.

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
                - George Orwell

21 years and counting.......

BUT THEY DIDN'T RESIST

"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if...people had not simply sat there in their lairs,
paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door, at every step on the staircase...but had understood they had nothing to lose and had
boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of a half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?"

Alexander Solzhenitsyn
The Gulag Archipelago

While reading about the history of Ireland I was amazed at how many times the British attacked Ireland and were only partly successful, or were repulsed; but there was never any reason not to try again, after telling soothing lies, and waiting a few years. It was as if a pack of wolves were following a big elk, time was on their side, they only had to win once.  Government wanting guns out of the citizens' hands is the same situation, and they can be ever so patient and persistent, and tell as many lies as it takes.

[azshooter]

I hope this is appealed to and taken up by the Supreme court.  Its time for a decision to be made once and for all.

[alsatian]

Actually, the thing to do is to lie low and wait until GW Bush appoints two or three new US Supreme Court justices who honestly support the constitution instead of crapping on it.

You all ought to read the Justice Department memo which is being referred to.  It is a slam dunk defense of the second amendment as an individual right.   Not much wriggle room around it that I can see.

Now, the Justice Department memo is not of standing in the court.  It would be necessary to bring up arguments from the memo, and then the judges would have to respond to the arguments.  As an authority or precedent the memo, however, would have no standing.

It really makes me bitter hearing about courts which bend and distort the constitution.  It just isn't rocket science.  The words are in our language.

[lostone1413]

I would hope GWB would appoint judges to the bench that support our 2nd amendment rights. When I look at who he made AG i'm not holding my breath. GWB was less anti-2nd amendment then Kerry but don't make the mistake of thinking GWB is Pro 2nd amendment because he isn't.

[fe352v8]

It is about power and money those who have them always want more.  Party affiliations do not matter, it is always about power and money.

life is no joke but funny things happen

jon