North Fork hybrid (solid shank, bonded tip) groovy bullets

[art2africa]

Anyone who has used them on african game? The solid shank has many grooves on it.

They have the .375 through .458 caliber bullets. From 200 grains to 450 grains.

http://www.northforkbullets.com/bullets.htm

[JJHACK]

I have no experience with these bullets but if they were willing to send me a box of 450 grain 458 bullets for evaluation I would certainly give them a good testing workout in RSA next season. They sound like a good bullet but with the 450 grain X bullets working so well I would not very likely switch unless the X's were unavailable.

[Graybeard]

Jim, I'll bet a sample could be obtained for you to test and review for our E-Zine. I'll visit their site and see if I can locate some contact info. What would be the minimum number of the bullets you'd need for working up a load, sighting in and then hunting with them in Africa?


PS: I pulled the contact info from their site. So Jim, send me a PM or e-mail to tell me how many you'll need to make the test worthwhile and give me a mailing address in the PM or E-mail to have them send the bullets directly to you. I'll contact them when I have that info.

[JJHACK]

Bill Message sent

[art2africa]

One thing I don't like about them is they're long, and mostly semi-spitzers (visit their site). The copper shaved out from the grooves has to go somewhere to lengthen the bullet. The extra length robs powder space, could require a compressed load.

[leverfan]

One thing I don't like about them is they're long, and mostly semi-spitzers (visit their site). The copper shaved out from the grooves has to go somewhere to lengthen the bullet. The extra length robs powder space, could require a compressed load.

What's wrong with semi-spitzers?  They'll do for 99% of hunting, and if you need something else, lord knows reloaders have lots of choices, these days.  Long range shooting tends to call for a different class of bullet, anyway.

I think that the copper is displaced into the grooves, so the bullet isn't lengthened, unlike some designs without a grooved shank.

Compressed loads are fine with me, and I don't even mind losing 50 fps because of lost case capacity.  That's not going to make or break a load, at least not for me.

Just playing devil's advocate here, and I have to admit that I've never even used this bullet brand.  I'm a Nosler Partition fan myself, when I'm not loading for lever guns.  Some of the grooved bullets, which promise reduced fouling and pressure, have tempted me, however.

[Graybeard]

No dice on the samples for Jim to test on next trip back to Africa.

I called today and spoke with the folks in charge. They say they really aren't much into giving out samples. Further said their bullets had been to Africa many times as if we should all thus be aware of how they performed. Also suggested if we want to read all about them we could go over to AR where folks from GBO are thought to be sub human it seems and read all about them. I assured him not many folks visted both places.

He further stated that most times he had given out free samples for such a review he got no review in return and when he did he saw no impact on sales. I assured him if the samples were sent a review would be forth coming from here but sure made no promises as to how it would impact his sales. Bottom line is I felt he didn't have enough confidence either in his own bullets or in GBO or both to front the measly cost of 50 bullets in return for a review to be seen by many thousands of folks. That to me speaks volumes as to what he thinks the results of his bullets likely would have been.

[JJHACK]

I have been shooting Swift Aframes, Barnes X and Hornady interbonds depending on the rifle. They give me all I could hope for in performance up to now. They are all easily available.

I am not looking for a change but rather saw an interesting project. As far as advertising goes, here are a couple from Hornady. These did help sales and were done by me!





You may need to refresh to get these to show up image station is overloaded at times.

Steve Hornady has always been easy to deal with for me. I still have boxes a the XTP bullets that I was sent for testing on bears when I was the wildlife manager for the WFPA. They also send me countless samples when I was the editor of bear hunting Magazine.  When in doubt about bullet quality or if having accuracy trouble. Shoot Hornady bullets as the foundation to base your accuracy on. With the new interbond bullets they can transform a standard hunting rifle into a magic wand!

Here are a few tough big game that my 30/06 with 165 grain interbonds just knocked flat. Some were shot by my clients who use my rifles in our RSA  safari camp


Bull Elk 361 points


Number 16 SCI wild boar


Bullets recovered from big game and the above wild boar

Note bullet on left is almost inside out and still retained 146 grains of weight. That was the bullet recovered from that big wild boar. Imagine what a lesser bullet of standard construction would look like?



Recovered from bull elk


Brett Flores first big game animal using my 30/06 with 165 grain Hornady interbonds. 125 yards and a complete pass through.



One of the more beautiful bears I have taken. It made B&C as well. Again a 165 grain Hornady interbond.  Why test anything else in this rifle? The Hornady interbonds work from point blank on big tough African game to way out there in alpine canyons on big black bears.  If you're considering a big game bullet don't look any further. The Interbonds are the most affordable bonded core technology and give perfect results every time.

[Graybeard]

Hornady has been a strong supporter of GBO since I began doing product reviews. They always come thru when asked.

Nosler and Sierra too are good in that regard. They always send bullets asked for for reviews. Barnes has been pretty good but never seem to send as many as requested. I've just had such poor results with their bullets accuracy wise I've stopped asking for them. Real shame as some of them would be really good choices for my needs IF I could get them to shoot in my rifles.

[Lawdog]

JJ,

Have you tried or are planning on trying the Barnes TSX bullets in your big bores?  I got some ordered but they are on back order at the moment.  Lawdog
 

[450 Dakota]

Ive been using North Forks for the last 6 months or so.  Ive shot about 170 rounds so far.  Ive been using the 270 gr and 300 gr 375 and 400 and 450 gr 458 cabliber bullets.

The semi spitzer design is a good thing to me.

For instance, a 270 gr Fail Safe is so long, I can only load 88 gr 4831 in my 375 Improved and the NF can handle 92 gr.  Its that much shorter.  

This makes a big diffeence in velocity.  (!00 fps more for the NF.)

These bullets do not foul the barrel like the Barnes X does, at least in my twi rifles.  I cant use Barnes in either my 375 or 458.  Just three shots and I have to spend 15-30 minutes cleaning out the bore with 7.62 solvent and a poly brush.

In my 450 Dakota, I am getting 2750 fps with the 400 gr North Fork and 2600 fps with the 450 gr bullet.

I know one gentleman who used the 450 gr NF in Tanzania on three buffalo, and all were one shot kills.  Two out of three were one shot stops, in their tracks.

Retained weight was 418 gr and exmapnsion .88 caliber, and this was at 2580 fps muzzle velocity.

The North Forks has more frontal area and is more consistant than a Barnes X and I like that.  It does not blow the front end off like a Barnes X does, yet it does not have so much expansion it "over expands."

Think of it as a Trophy Bonded that works, and is not made by Speer!

I have made three ordes for bullets and they were confirmed by e mail, and shipped next day.

Cant ask for more.

PS  I dont know why anyone would expect free samples when the rest of us pay for them.  These other bullet makers are just trying to buy a good review.  Its called "payola."  

The North Fork is a good, maybe even a great product and I am happy to pay for them.  

Im sure "Hack" would be able to give a lot better details on a necropsy than most hunters and thats worth alot to a bullet maker, but Im also sure he probably buys his 450 gr X bullets.

[art2africa]

450Dakota, welcome to GBO. I'm new to this forum too.

I would like to believe your remarks about the length of NFs. Perhaps when compared to Barnes X and TSX. The Barnes' are just TOO long and they foul my barrel (haven't tried TSX).

In .416 caliber,
the NF 370gr is 1.44"; 325gr. is 1.28"
the Woodleigh 400gr RN is 1.3"; 340gr PP is 1.19".

I have a 416 Rem. and only 3.61" of magazine length and I'm looking for a plains game bullet that doesn't take away too much powder space / velocity.  I have no length problem with the RNs for DG but I'd like to develop lighter bullet (325-350gr at 2600 or above) loads for plains game.

Of course, on the day I'm hunting plains game (PG) I'll have my .300 Win Mag with me, but on the day hunting DG it'd be nice to have the lighter .416 rounds handy as a contingency (along with my detacheable scope), just in case a nice PG trophy presents itself in the distance.

[JJHACK]

450 Dakota, First I did not ask for anything for free, they were offered. Second if you hang out here long enough or if you have read any of the magazines I have written for you will see pretty quick if I don't like something I don't give it a good review regardless of the "payola".

Its the entire reason I'm not writing for the magazine I just left. They published an article on carbon lined scent free suits and they are a complete joke. I demanded to write a counterpoint artical and was denied because the particular company was a huge sponsor of the magazine with full page glossy adds. I don't participate in the payments for good reviews part of the business. It's the main reason I do not work for a large magazine right now as a full time writer. They have sets of unwritten but well known guidelines much as you suggested in the post you put up.

You know, my wife kids me from time to time that I have the ability to fall asleep anyplace I am.  She says that I'm like a little child in that ability to just lean back and fall asleep anywhere. I have told her over and over children can fall asleep anyplace, you know why that is?  Because children have no worries or stress they find sleep easy without anything preoccupying their minds to keep them tossing and turning.  I fall asleep the same way because I have a 100% clear conscience all the time. One thing my mentor in this writing business, the late Duncan Gilchrist taught me many years ago. Be 100% honest in what you write because one day you will be called on a detail and you better recall it. He said to me don't tell any lies when you write and you won't have to remember them later when asked about them.

As far as the bullets go I have only one rifle which can shoot the X bullets well. The 458 Lott, the 30/06 and the 375HH foul badly with them and are too much work to use them frequently.  One thing I like to do is shoot with practice bullets that are the same ones I hunt with. Shooting Aframes or TBBC or even the North Forks are fairly expensive for the amount I shoot at a buck a bullet. That is one reason the Hornady interbonds are so wonderful. They are 30 bucks a 100 compared to the 50 bucks for 50 the other bonded bullets go for. This one thing allows plenty of practice with the exact bullet you will be shooting at game.

That single benifit would be enough to sway me even if they were less then perfectly accurate. Well they are deadly accurate and with a bonded core that just does not quit. Look over the photo's above and you will see they just don't get better then this and at only 30 bucks a 100. That's actually less expensive then Nosler partitions for a Bonded core ballistic tipped bullet!  

As far as barrel fouling goes much of that has to do with the barrel as well as the bullet. My factory Winchester 30/06 barrel was unbelievabley fouled from the X bullet and the A frames. When I had the barrel replaced at 3600 rounds the new Pacnor barrel could shoot X and A frames without much of a problem. However since the introduction of the Interbonds I see no reason to switch from the experiences I have had to date. I have easily seen  100 animals shot with the interbond now and not a single one has been lost.

Regarding animals dropped on the shot. That requires a CNS hit and really is not an example of superior bullet performance but rather superior bullet placement. Any animal hit in the spine will fold in it's tracks 100% of the time. The real measure of bullet performance comes with lots of resolution. Meaning many many animals shot and located. One true measure is shooting an animal with a properly size bullet/cartridge in the quartering away direction. Then see where the bullet ends up. If the bullet does not exit with a nice big exit hole on a pure boneless broadside shot then how can it be expected to penetrate far enough on the quartering shot? Or when bones are hit broadside?

Another important feature is to see what happens on a big animal at point blank and then another at 300 yards. It's asking an awefull lot of a bullet to hang in there at ultra high velocity of point blank and still have the ability to mushroom properly at 300 yards when going far slower. Once you have recoverd many bullets or have seen these kinds of events a few dozen times each,.... only then can you say a bullet has the structural integrity to be a "super bullet" Very few meet these demands, although to hear people talk after seeing one, two, or even a few animals shot with good results they are the best bullet of all time.

I require lots more resolution then a dozen dead animals to form an opionion. In anycase it sounds as if you have a good load your happy with and have found the magic combination you are looking for. Good luck and good hunting.

[Graybeard]

PS I dont know why anyone would expect free samples when the rest of us pay for them. These other bullet makers are just trying to buy a good review. Its called "payola."

Clearly you don't know much about the way things are run around here.

Two points.

First in regard this particular discussion. A question was asked about them. None of us had experience with them. Jim commented he could test them if he had samples. I commented that I could likely get him some. Turned out I was wrong. BUT Jim has already made it abundantly clear he will only be a part of a review if he can tell it precisely as he sees it. That he is doing reviews is proof he has that freedom here at GBO.

Second regarding free samples of bullets. Anyone doing reviews of products must either have a huge income (which I don't. I'm retired on a limited income) or get some of the items needed for no cost.

I buy many of the products I review here. More guns than not are what I buy with my funds. Some are provided at no charge to me but have to be either returned at my expense or I must buy them. Then I have to provide all the cases, bullets, primers, power, etc and time to do the reviews. Without help from manufacturers who want to see their products listed I'd have to not do the reviews as I just don't have the income to buy all the stuff. On all such reviews I end up with a good deal of my own money invested. Only if an item doesn't require such components for the review can I come out even on the deal. Even then if I have to pay to return it I'm out of pocket on it.

Sending the items to be reviewed at no cost buys them nothing really. Except a review and honest opinion of it. Now I do have some basic guide lines I generally follow.

If I ask for a product and it turns out to be a real loser I tell them not you. I asked for it, they didn't ask me to do it. I own them a chance to make it right or do no review. Later if asked about the product I'll give my honest opinion of it but won't do a review.

If someone asks me to review their product the report goes up. Good bad or indifferent it is posted.

Examples of this are Barnes Bullets. I asked. They send. I tried and didn't like. Wouldn't shoot in my guns. I didn't do the review. But when the subject comes up I do mention I don't like them, can't make them shoot in my guns. Another is the Barnes Handgun bullets. Didn't like them, was asked to take a new look with new sample. Did and they worked OK. Review reflects all of this.

If it ain't good I don't say it is. I report my findings and opinions as honestly as I know how. Good products get good reviews. No one pays me to do these reviews and over the time I've been doing them I've spent a lot of my own funds. Just to let you folks who don't pay one red cent to use this site know how they worked out.

After you've paid the money needed to run a site like this at no cost whatsoever to the folks who use it, and bought all of your own guns, bullets, etc and done a hundred or so reviews, come back and tell me about it.

[450 Dakota]

Gray beard,

You are pretty "thin skinned" for a moderator.

Grow up.

Art2Africa, If you are shooting a 416 try the North Fork 370 gr.  I know a man who used the 370 gr at over 2500 fps on two buffalo, and have seen photos of one recovered bullet.  (The other exited with avery large exit hole in meat).

JJHack.  You are a gentleman.  A man with your credentials really does deserve a better forumn than this.  Why not offer to moderate something on Accurate Reloading, where people actually have African experience?  

The 450 gr North Fork is 1.453 inches long, compared to 1.495 for the Barnes X.  Its not alot of difference but the .458 win mag and Lott need all the case capacity they can get.  The NF is more of a spitzer than a semi spitzer.  Same meplat diameter as a Swift as near as I can tell.

I realize youve done well with the Interbond but if you ever get jumped by a buff or lion while your looking for kudu I know youd rather have a North Fork or Trophy Bonded with that big glob of solid copper behind the mushroom.  If you ever have to brain a hippo with your 30-06, youll feel the same way.  
   
If you can afford Africa you can afford a buck a round.  My life is worth a buck, and so is a clean kill.  A freind just returned from a plains game hunt in RSA and got five one shot kills with the Federal high energy 165 gr Trophy Bonded, including zebra and kudu, and the North Fork is a similar or better bullet.  

Those three buffalo in Tanzania with the 450 Dakota were not CNS hits by the way.  Heart shot from broadside on two and front-on at V of neck on the other.  Did not even hit a shoulder.  

Gray beard has a way or rubbing people the wrong way.  Why dont you call or e mail Mike Brady yourself.  Am sure hed be happy to see you use his bullets next year in your Lott.

[Graybeard]

Gray beard,

You are pretty "thin skinned" for a moderator.

I'm NOT a moderator. I'm the site OWNER.

Gray beard has a way or rubbing people the wrong way.

Speaking of which. You have already accomplished that exact task yourself. I'd suggest you move on and find a place where you'll fit in better. I don't think this is it. Perhaps back to AR where you came from.

[500grains]

Well, I see that somebody is just as cantankerous as ever...

[Graybeard]

Who me?  :eek:

I resemble that remark.  :-D

[Yukon Jack]

I've had the good pleasure of dealing with Mike Brady several times over the past year or so.  All of his bullets I've shot have been very accurate with minimal copper fouling.  On my trip to Zimbabwe this year, I will have NF's loaded up.