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Author Topic: Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?  (Read 925 times)

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Offline James B

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« on: February 19, 2005, 11:40:24 AM »
Have any of you used the Garret or Corbon loads in the Handi Rifle? I Understand that they also make a heavy 44 Mag load. Is the NEF action up to handleing the heavy loads?  Would you consider the Handi rifle for dangerous NA game like the big bears?
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Offline ratherbefishin

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2005, 12:26:47 PM »
sure it is-if you hold it straight
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Offline quickdtoo

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2005, 01:43:23 PM »
An SB2 Handirifle of current production will handle Corbon, Garrett or Buffalo Bore ammo. A single shot would not be my first choice on a DG hunt, not that it couldn't be done, it's just that I'd prefer to be able to go on other hunts in my lifetime, too..and carrying a single shot on a DG hunt isn't the best way to insure that I'm alive and well for more hunts....If I had a backup hunter with me, I'd consider it, though.... :wink:
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Offline James B

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2005, 01:56:10 PM »
I carry my Swiss Army knife as a back-up. :)
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Offline quickdtoo

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2005, 01:59:59 PM »
Yeah, that would work......to put yourself out of your misery after Mr Big has his way with ya!!!! :eek:
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Offline Mac11700

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2005, 02:12:21 PM »
I thought it was to slit your throat before he got to you :)  :)  :)

Mac
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Offline Greysky

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2005, 02:35:57 PM »
If it were legal, I'd carry a magnum revolver for backup.

If this option isn't legal, I would definitely opt for the buddy system.

Frankly, I'm so afraid of large carnivorous beasts I would probably turn tail and run if I heard one growl in the distance.
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Offline jbtazgrabber

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????????????
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2005, 04:41:53 PM »
I would go hunting with my single shot for DG if my buddy was with me.  The old saying is "You dont have to outrun the bear, just your buddy!!!!"  My buddy weighs over 300 pounds.  I could trot off, bear would be there so long it would be time to hybernate by the time it gone done eating.   :grin:  :grin:  :-D  :-D

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I am not a hunter, I am a wildlife population control specialist.
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Offline James B

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2005, 04:46:00 PM »
Remind me not to be your buddy. I can't run fast either. :)
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Offline JPH45

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2005, 07:27:17 PM »
James, I've never hunted bear in a serious way. Friend and I used to go up into the N GA mountians hoping for a chance at a blackie.....

Anyway, I'm not convinced that bear are as terribly dangerous as folks say. You ain't gonna go messin with a cub or a den, you ain't going to try taking a salmon away from one....

It is interesting that in John Brownings biography, the last bear hunt he went on is described. He was using one of the first single shots he made, the owner had abused it and he was concerned about the rifle extracting from the rusty chamber, he took a rod with him to clear such a failure. He perched himself on a ledge and shortly a bear came out on a ledge below him, and proceeded t watch the sun set. Browning watched the bear watching the sunset, never fired. Browning says never hunted bear after that.

My dad spent his college years in Idaho after WW2. We have family in Wyoming, he spent the summers working on their ranch. A hand on the ranch that dad stayed with and helped as he was dying from cancer told him that the best way to kill grizzly was either with a bow or with a log trap. Bear couldn't hear the direction an arrow came from and couldn't return the attack. The log trap was a ham tied on a small  log, in a stack of logs designed to collapse when the ham was pulled on. I don't doubt that bears can be dangerous, I just wonder if the myth is greater than the reality.

I have little trouble loading Handi quickly. Could I beat a charge from 20 yards? NO. But I don't thing anything other than a auto would help in that situation. I have little trouble having a second round in the chanber when I've shot a deer, and quickly enough that I have been able to put a second shot on one before it traveled 10 yards. A little practice and it loads as quickly as removing a lever from your shoulder to shuck the action (not the right way for those who may not  know) Practice, stick a cartridge or two between the fingers of your left hand (assuming right handed) fire, press the action lever,let the spent case fly, stick in a new one and shoulder it up. A good low power scope or simple open sights. Not even irons. Shallow folding V's were the item of choice on double rifles of African dangerous game, that may be the best choice. Would I use a single on DG? probably not, but I don't find it a terrible handicap. Be sure your first shot breaks the shoulder, it is hard to charge when you can't get up off the ground.
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Offline Joel

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2005, 08:15:34 PM »
I chose many years ago, as a child, to hunt with singleshots, and for the most part I have.   My dad did the same before me.  He killed both moose and a couple of good sized black bear with a Hepburn #3 in 45/70 shooting standard factory 405 gr loads.  I"ve never shot either and have no desire to, unless my lifestyle changes and I need either/both for food.  BUT if i did, it would also be with my 45/70 with appropriate loads...my current load of the 400 gr Speer at 1750 fps seems fairly appropriate except for maybe a big Brownie where more penetration would be needed.  An awful lot of dangerous game has been killed with one shot, even though the rifle may have been a double/repeater.  You chose your caliber to suit the game and shoot the rifle until it's part of you.  Choose your shot's(it's possible) and do what single shot rifle shooters supposedly have a reputation for......aim for the most crippling shot.   Since I always hunt alone, except for rabbit's, all my buddies are guaranteed safe.  If I'm not.....it's what I chose.
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Offline James B

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2005, 09:37:52 PM »
JPH45. Thanks. I used the shells between my fingers for years hunting with an old Savage single shot 12 Ga. It reminds me of my granddad, He shot an old single shot extra full choke 16 Ga. shot gun for many years. One Fall his kid got together and bought him a new 20 Ga semi auto shotgun. When a bunch of birds would fly up he would shoot once and then watch the rest fly away. He never could get used to that auto.
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Offline Woodbutcher

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2005, 12:24:19 PM »
Greysky, you make a lotta sense. I'm with you!  Woodbutcher
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Offline tanoose

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2005, 02:54:38 PM »
When i get my 45/70 handi i hope the loads i used in my marlin will be just as accurate if not i'll have to do alot of experimenting. My pet loads were 45 and 47 grains of IMR4198 with Hornadys 350 grain RN that puts the velocity around 1900fps great for deer and any black bear you may walk up on. Buffalo bore is using some newer powders that produce low pressures and send that same 350 grain bullet to around 2150 fps, now your in brown bear country. I have no need to get those higher velocitys in the handi ,if i ever go for the big bears with a 45/70 it would be with a marlin leveraction.
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Offline JPH45

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2005, 05:54:57 PM »
James, your grandpa reminds me of me. I do great on the skeet range with an auto, never drop ashot, do fine with a pump on the skeet range and in the field. Put an auto in my hands, and here I am watching whats going on after I pulled the trigger, gun off my shoulder of course. It's a good thing they still make single shots, I'd be lost without 'em. I'm not so much old fashioned as I have difficuly with the new fangled.
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Offline Mac11700

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2005, 07:44:05 PM »
James B:

Would I consider the Handi for dangerous game??? If you mean deliberate hunting of the Big coastal brownies..or Large Grizzlies...or huge polar Bears...only if I had someone backing me up with a DG gun...like the professional hunters have and use in Africa...when going after the very meanest carnivors...and if I did go...most of Garrets...Buffalo Bores...or Cor Bons would have already been sited in and practiced with...till I was confident enough to put at least 2 shots under 3 seconds at a  fast moving target coming towards me at 30-25 yards...becasue if it got to those distances before I got my second shot off...I would pray to God...that my back up shooter would have already let go a volley of his own......but ...that's just me...and what I would do...

I you can...order a copy of the Handloader #224 August-September 2003...they have some pretty awsome loads in there that stay under 44,000 cup...which is the average pressures from the 444 marlin...a 405 Alaska Bullet Bonded FP at 2,001 fps...a 415 RCBS 45-405-FNcast at 2,088 fps...and a 430 Oregon Trail True Shot FP/GC at 1943 fps... :eek:  :eek:  :eek:

Those just gotta hurt on both ends.....certainly not for a light weight ...I would have to have at-least a 12-15 lb gun before I shot those...

Mac
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Offline Sourdough

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Bear loads for the 45-70 Handi?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2005, 08:45:08 PM »
I carry single shot Handi's or a single shot TCR exclusively.  I hunt in Grizzly and Black Bear country all the time.  Usually alone.
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