Perhaps there are a few things that haven't crossed some folks mind's yet? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have crossed my mind either had I traveled a different path, but alas, I have been there, and I've done that, and I've got way too many T-Shirts. Now I'm in the mood to explain my position on "Laser Sighting," so take it for what it's worth. You don't know me, and I don't know you, so check my info against the pros at Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, The FBI, Special Forces, and the Surefire Academy before you take to heart the following. And keep in mind something, in a gunfight, especially a night fight, there's a really good chance you are going to get shot, but a lesser chance that you will die. Never let a gun shot stop you from fighting back. And think for a second - your home defense gun cost how much? Your laser grips cost how much? Surely you can afford a Level III vest to put by your bedside also. *smiles*
That was my disclaimer. Now, I've gotta say that I was once a non-believer in using a flashlight for the exact same reasons that GB stated. I would, and did, argue this subject with a lot of folks, just as vehemently as GB. I was subsequently fortunate enough to be able to attend a variety of shooting and self defense training on these same subjects thanks to the generosity of my NRA training counselor, and the IDPA sponsors who wished for me to begin teaching the same to others. I have, formally, practiced night fire with live rounds at least 20 times in the past two years, and as recently as 60 days ago, along with a number of experienced, NRA certified pistol instructors. I have done so with .45 ACP, .357 Mag, 12g shotgun, and high power rifle. I have proven to my complete satisfaction everything that follows regarding nightime shooting. There is no substitute for safe practice. 90% of shootouts are in the dark. That is how people should practice, but many places do not allow this because of the risks associated with taking novice shooters out on the range at night where you cannot always see where their muzzles are pointed.
Why am I qualifying myself? Simple, I wouldn't want anyone to think I came up with all this from TV or the movies.
Sooooo....short of buying GenIII night vision goggles or scopes.....here's what you've got to deal with:
With a flashlight, you illuminate, and probably blind the perp if it's something like a "Surefire," then you move really quickly to a place where the beam wasn't coming from. You have now ID'd the target, and possibly multiple targets. He shoots where the beam was - you are simply not there anymore. You either moved to the left, the right, up or down, or even prone. If you've trained and prepared for such a thing as this, and have set up your home defensive strategy properly, you have fled behind cover immediately and CANNOT be hit easily at all.
OR....because, in .2 of a second, you were able to get a complete polaroid of his full frontal body with your high intensity light, you move and fire immediately at the stunned perp with a triple tap, and he never knew what hit him. Then you fly to cover and reload for the next guy and wait to see if your man is down to stay. Shooting on the move takes - you guessed it - alot of practice.
By the way, the old FBI technique of holding the light at arms length when you press the button is no longer advocated by professionals. With a laser on the gun, this is not even an option as your point of aim would be wayyy off the target and the laser becomes useless to you until you fire it up again and wave it around until it meets the targets center of mass again. In those precious seconds, you've been fired at plenty of times.
With a laser, you illuminate and shoot. You cannot ID a target with a laser sight effectively. At the range of most shootouts, 3-10 yards, all you get is a pinpoint - a tiny red dot. I've been down this road in training, and things happen wayyyy too fast to try and analyze what is behind that pinpoint of red light. I'm sorry, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this "point" GB - no pun intended.
For example. A guy at night who is yawning and stretching and holding a rolled up magazine or newspaper looks exactly like someone with a club attacking you. It could be your own spouse! You cannot ID that with a laser. Well okay, maybe you can, if you've got the time to concentrate on that pinpoint for a second or two - and aim it just right, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF TIME! -- in situations like this. And how the heck can you be sure, in total darkness, that when you switch the laser on, it's already going to be pointed in his face? Most likely, you'll be moving it around trying to ID the target, and BOOM, you're dead. Taking that kind of time will certainly get you blown away. You can't be trying to thread needles during a gunfight in the dark.
You've got to remember something. The perp is already ready. You are the one that is probably being awoken from a dead slumber. He's already on guard. 99% of the time, the perp has the advantage, and your goal is to swing that back around.
In another frightful example. Let's say you hear the perp 10 yards away in the black of night. You point your laser at his forehead. Hmmmm.....doesn't look like anybody you know. You quickly step aside 4 feet to the left. He fires at where the red dot was and misses you. You return fire. So far so good. Oh my! He had my little 3 foot tall child standing in front of him as a hostage and barrier. You can't ID that with a laser either.
Okay, here's another. Your sitting in your "safe room" upstairs, waiting for the burglar to come to you. You've been trained to do that, and it's the smartest thing to do. You hear footsteps and the doorknob turning. You've yelled out several times, "Who is there!" You've haven't gotten a response, you are ready, and this is it! The door opens, you turn on the laser, you see a shoulder, you swing the laser to get a better shot, and your head is blown off by a sawed off shotgun. OR......same scenario, but you fired first and killed the neighbor's teenager who is drunk, listening to his mp3 player at full blast, and used to live in a cookie cutter house just like yours! Oops...
Yet another. You go out to dinner and you've had a nice meal and maybe a cocktail or two. You're wanting to call it a night now. Upon your arrival home, you see that your front door is partly open. You had your babysitter there watching your children. Time may be of the essence because you live 30 miles from the nearest police station. You can't bear to just drive off for help. Your neighbor isn't home, and your cell phone was accidently left at home. As a good man, you decide that possibly saving some lives at this moment is definitely the right thing to do. You've now got to "clear" your own house, but all the lights are off. Good luck with that laser pal. The person in that room might just be a bound, gagged, and hoodwinked babysitter, and while your flashing your pin point at the surprise of someone's presence,, the perp is now stabbing you in the back with a knife repeatedly.
Of course, there are a million possible scenarios for night shootings, and if you go over as many as you can, and think to yourself - "I have a high intensity flashlight, or I have a laser," I believe you will realize rather soon which one is preferable to the other. Neither is perfect, but one is clearly more useful than the other. Of course, if you'd like to know more about what I've learned regarding this subject over the years, just feel free to ask, so long as it isn't too personal. *smiles*
I have done a fair amount of shooting in the total dark. I am 100% convinced that the best way to go is with a Surefire Z2, or something similar, but, you've gotta learn the techniques and tricks, and above all, PRACTICE realistically. A Surefire will utterly wreck someone's night vision - I can promise you that! Heck, it will wreck your vision at high noon on a sunny day, but again, you've gotta get the training. And no, I've got no vested interest in Surefire, but their lights are the best - which is why they are standard issue to FBI, Secret Service, Special Forces, Marine Recon, and on and on. There are many things to think about in a night fight. Whether or not you are backlit? How to use concealment. How to disorient. The role noise plays in the situation. When to back out completely. etc etc etc
Another thing is the muzzle flash. Unless you handload with the right powder and use a semi-auto pistol, there is the possibility that after you fire the first shot, or you adversary fires his sawed off shotgun in your direction, you'll be seeing a thousand little orange/red dots in front of you. A good flashlight will wash most of that away. Now don't even think you can simulate this by just turning off some lightswitch, or going out back. There is a big difference between eyes that have been asleep for hours in total dark, and eyes that have been in the dark for 15 minutes. If you decide to practice, wait until there is no moon, no city lights, etc and plan on camping out for awhile - no campfire either. That is the only realistic way I know of. I am not suggesting you do this on your own unless you are thoroughly versed and disciplined in range safety. In fact, I recommend you do it formally, cuz if you shoot yourself in the foot, or you shooting buddy, I don't want it hanging over MY head.
Yet another thing is the effect of the light on the perp. Professional flashlights deliberately create a cone of light in front of you which prevents the perp from seeing exactly who and what they are up against. One technique involves making the perp think that you are two or three people -- another plug for training. With a laser, you don't get that either. What are the odds of you being able to hold your laser on target long enough to burn out one eyeball on the perp? If you keep it on that long, you are dead meat unless you've got some serious cover between you and him.
The only practical use I have for laser sights is for dry fire practice. I use a laser bore sighter for that purpose. It is a great way to help find the best grip on your handgun to reduce the arc of movement and become a more accurate marksman.
Conversly, I think tritium night sights are a gift from above when it comes to shooting in the dark.
As far as seeing a beam from the laser. If the perp has been shooting first, (hopefully not) there will be enough smoke for him to perhaps track the beam to it's origins. Yes, I know that's a stretch, but you're trying to take away ALL his possible advantages right? I would never suggest holding a laser beam, or a flashlight, on the target during a gunfight. The idea is: illuminate - move - illuminate - move. With a flashlight, used CORRECTLY, there is also a really good chance that the perp will think that is ALL you have and make even more mistakes in your favor. With a laser, he knows he's in for a gunfight.
I just shot my laser against a white wall in total darkness. The red dot was less than 1/4" with about 1/2" inch of redish haze around it at the most. Keep in mind this is a WHITE wall, and not a black balaclava. This was at 4 yards. I then shot my flashlight at the same spot for the heck of it - battery check - and I had to feel my way back to the light switch cause my vision was gone for a few moments.
Finally, Hackathorn knows better. There is NO POSSIBLE way he could have changed his ideas about laser sights. He trains the armed forces, and they'd drop him like a hot potato if he suggested using a laser in scenarios similar to one's I've described. On the other hand, perhaps he's retired himself from doing that now because he's totally converted to using lasers? Maybe that pays better? I still think he's probably sold himself out for some easy money. I've e-mailed and left him voice mail. I just can't wait to hear what he has to say on this one. My advice: Sell the grips on eBay, take the money and invest in a professional light and some training.
Looking forward to having all these comments invalidated.
