Author Topic: need some opinions (Read 1166 times)

Ricoh · « **on:** February 22, 2005, 04:41:54 AM »

Thanks for the welcome Redhawk. This whole thing started when I picked up a Traditions Pursuit Pro. Man this gun feels great, comes to shoulder really nice and just makes you feel like you could shoot this gun. I then started to look at the reviews on the net and I am a little concerned about the safety issue with their barrels. Anyone had any trouble or heard anything? I am now leaning towards the Huntsman, now that they are going to a 26" barrel. Looking for a dealer in my area to take a good look. Any other suggestions? Ontario has finally opened a muzzleloader only season for deer and I hear they are going to expand it for next year in my area.

simonkenton · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2005, 05:26:20 AM »

Get a Wolverine.

AndyHass · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2005, 10:37:37 AM »

I wouldn't worry about the barrel. Certain people like to start controversy and spread around unproven "facts" like they're the world expert...I'm not going to go into names. While the barrels may not be PROOFED as high, I've owned 2 Traditions and been 2nd-hand witness to dozens of others and never seen a barrel problem. Fact is, can't say I ever heard of a confirmed one, either. However the quality of the rest of the gun is bottom-of-the-market.
I'd go with a Wolverine or Black Diamond too. Probably the same price and better quality.

JRSR126 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2005, 12:56:13 PM »

Walmart had the Huntsman down in the states for $128 but last time I checked they had the Huntsman/12 gauge shotgun combination. I picked the Huntsman as my first muzzleloader. It was light, cheap, accurate, and great handling. I plan to use open sights only so no shots over 100 -125 yds. I did like the Wolverine but the Huntsman handled better and was cheaper. Bass Pro wanted $200 for a Wolverine 209. My eye was on the Knight Disc on closeout for $300 but it was just too much. I had to buy all of the muzzleloader accessories too.

There is a forum on Greybeards for Huntsman/Sidekick that can give you allot more information. . For the money, the Huntsman and Sidekick are hard to beat. If I really get into muzzleloading and want a scoped long range tack driver, I plan to buy a Knight Disc Elite. My 2 cents.

simonkenton · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2005, 12:06:08 AM »

You better get moving on that Disc Elite. That $300 is a closeout price because the Disc Elite has been discontinued.
You live in Atlanta? I am from Chamblee.

simonkenton · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2005, 12:16:32 AM »

I just read an account of a Traditions barrel blow up. This is part of a lawsuit and it is believable.
A guy who had never fired a muzzleloader was given a Traditions kit by his wife.
While she watched, the guy loaded it first time with 777 using 3 pellets and it blew. His face was badly injured.
This episode is a result of the "Magnum" bs being put out by the inline manufacturers. I have been shooting black powder for 40 years. If I got a new gun I certainly would not start with 150 grains of powder, I would start at 80. This is because I have killed 7 deer with this load and I know it to be accurate, with plenty of power out to 100 for the round ball. With a sabot in an inline, much longer range is possible. For longer shots, I would move up to 85, then 90, then 95 and 100 grains and see how it went. Usually at 110 grains or so accuracy begins to fall off, and it is hard on your shoulder. I would never get up to 150 grains if I had the rifle for ten years.
All the manufacturers have to put "Magnum 150 Grain" capability in their ads.
Moreover, every company has had barrels blow. Right now Sako has had a bunch of centerfire barrels blow, and they are in the middle of a recall.
I think if used safely the Spanish barrels are fine.
I think the US barrels are of higher quality.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2005, 08:14:33 AM »

I have a Pursuit LT and I agree with the comments that the barrels are safe. The proof marks are a requirement to get them shipped out of Spain and as you will notice US manufactured barrel (T/C, Knight-Green Mountain etc.) have no proof marks. The proof marks are the minimum that will get them shipped and not a maximum proof statement. None of the manufacturers want to list a maximum proof as some fool would try to see if he could match the maximum listed. There is probably more safety margin in a T/C barrel but I do not intend to try to reach that maximum in any of my rifles. I only load 90 to 100 grains in my Omega and 80-90 in my Pursuit. I can shoot completely through an Elk with those loads and do not see reason to exceed it. I shoot Black Mag'3 and limit any of my loads with that powder to 120gr. regardless of how light the bullet is and less with heavy bullets. I suspect there was a fly in the ointment on the new rifle blow-up. Sorry to hear of it if it is real; however, some reason must be used and loading maximum loads with a new rifle is not resonable. With that little knowledge I wonder about the rest of the variables like bullet seating on powder etc.

Stan M. · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2005, 03:54:20 PM »

Hello Ricoh,
Opinions are plentiful around here. You never mentioned the price line you were looking at, but I take it you want a moderate priced rifle to start with. I would say a Kight, TC Black, Diamond, or NEF. I have shot a lot of different rifles for people and have always seen good results with low end Knight rifles. The NEF rifles,I have heard good things about them here on GBO. TC has always been helpful to me and shot well.
As far as in-lines go I have shot the Remington 700 for years and love the rifle and it's accuracy. Some people here claim it's barrel is more or less a time bomb. But I never had a problem. Hodgdon only reccomends 100gr. or two pellets...period, if I'm not mistaken.
As far as Traditions I have seen problems with them and I think their customer service sucks! May have been just the person i spoke with.
I think they have had recalls over the years as well.
I e-mailed CVA customer service once, about ordering a new breech plug that was rounded off. I asked them about a recall on the Apollos and the possibilities of breech plug failure. The response I got was the parts were available by calling the number posted. There was a recall at that time for pre '96 Apollos if my memory is right. The rifle I was working on was not affected by the recall but I wanted to see what CVA had to say. I still have that e-mail saved. A friend I work with, knows of some one in the club next to his had part of his face removed by breechplug failure in a CVA. He supposedly won a law suit.
I feel like CVA should have addressed my recall issue, but they didn't, especially with a recall out on Apollos.
Yes I guess any brand can fail or have a recall and it takes some common sense from the user as well. Customer service means a lot to me and I think you get it from the rifles you have been recommended.
Good luck with your decision,
Stan

JRSR126 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2005, 07:08:28 PM »

simonkenton,

Hello to fellow Georgian. I live in the Woodstock area. The $300 was for a Knight Disc which used the old primer carriers. For the Disc Elite, they wanted $400. The $130 Huntsman was a compromise with my wife. Anyway I figured I was new to muzzleloading and I may not like it. Plus the Huntsman is very compact for the brush. Long story short after my first range session, I am busy saving my money for that scoped tack driver.

Curious where you can shoot in North Georgia. I have to drive 1.5 hours up to Calhoun and pay $5 to use a WMA shooting range which closes in the summer.

mrlizzzard · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2005, 12:35:16 AM »

I bought a new Kodiak last yr.Returned it because primer misfires.I looked at Encore,too much cash for 4 day season.Omega felt like a railroad tie to me.I just bought SS Sidekick 24" it feels good.I don't believe in magnum loads and at $200 it's a steal.Blued and wood is $114 from dalls tactical.

THe smart thing to do would buy a NEF TDC from Wally for $143 and send it in for the 50 huntsman barrel in SS.If it's $100 you have $250 bucks in a fine shotgun and ML.

just my thinkin,
lizzzard

simonkenton · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2005, 02:22:48 AM »

JRSR126--The reason I remarked about your posting was, that on another site the guys were bemoaning the demise of the Disc Elite, and there were some stainless Disc Elites on closeout for $300 so I thought that was what you were referring to. Sad to see such a great rifle discontinued.
Well, there are plenty of other expensive tack drivers out there.
The thing is about that damn disc elite, I know a guy who got 1/4 inch groups right out of the box with that thing. It is regarded my many as the most accurate inline ever made.
I have been to the DNR range near Calhoun, you ought to be grateful for it.
I have moved to the mountains of North Carolina. DNR does not have any ranges up here. The little old time hardware store sells GUNS, man, it is like going back to 1955 to see that rack of guns in a hardware store. Then, you ask the clerk, "Where is a rifle range" and he gives you a funny look. Around here, people just throw some beer cans in the yard and shoot them off the porch.
Any day you will hear gunfire coming from every direction.
Did I mention, very few home invasion robberies here in Madison county?
The closest range is indoor, and it is 80 minutes away.
I finally found a place to shoot, there is a clearing along the railroad tracks where the quarry has piled up some gravel. Guys get out and shoot into that gravel. People also pull in there to walk their dogs.
So I am back at 200 yards, drawing down on the target, and a van pulls in right into my line of fire, a retired guy is in there with his dog.
Really a bad place to shoot.
So I miss the old Ga DNR ranges.
Plus, when I used to live in Milledgeville, there was a private range there, cost $20 a year, you could go in and have the place to yourself usually, 8 benches with roofs.
I had great hog and deer hunting down there in central Ga too. Maybe I ought to move back.
The deer hunting up here is miserable. The mountain boys "keep and bear", and shoot anything on 4 legs with little regard for game laws.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2005, 05:04:27 AM »

Simonkenton: I noticed the Milledgeville note. My very good friend lives in Milledgeville and has a 200 yard shooting range out his back door (he owns a lot of property just outside town). He is into black powder cartridge and made a 40-65 RollingBlock out of a 7mm one for me. It is beautiful. His name it Jack Jaquette; per chance did you ever meet? I am very envious of his set-up. I have to go to a local range here to shoot. We used to be able to shoot in the desert but due to the increase in hikers and horse riders they outlawed target shooting in the National Forest just outside town. The good thing is the range is four miles from my house.

simonkenton · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2005, 07:31:43 AM »

I don't know Jack Jacquette.
I know that county like the back of my hand, I was a Paramedic there for 13 years.
Do you know what highway your friend lives on?
Lots of nice real estate available down there in central Ga.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2005, 07:12:39 PM »

It has been some time since I drove down there to pick up my rifle he built. His wife is part owner of a large canning factory and they live just a couple of section away from the factory. He owns enough property that his address is a road that he made so I don't think that would help. I may find out the general area and post later or if you give me an email I can send direct and not clutter this site with talk. Mine is klewisinc@msn.com