Author Topic: Looking to get into coyote hunting, need rifle (Read 1932 times)

Eddie in Delta · « **on:** January 12, 2005, 01:01:41 PM »

I live in southern Utah, and I spend a lot of time out in the coyote-filled desert near my house. I want to start hunting them, but starting is often the hardest part.

I have a .300 WM for elk, a 12 gauge, and a .22. I would like to get a new gun (who wouldn't?). What would you recommend for a walking gun in that caliber for coyotes, rabbits, and targets? I'm leaning towards a .223 because I don't reload. Bull barreled AR's feel weird to me, but I could probably get used to it.

Since I probably won't have the money for a new gun immediately (high school and all that), what would you hunt with for now?

Also, what kinds of callers work for you? My friend's uncle says that the coyotes in Utah are getting jaded from jackrabbit calls. Any first-hand experiences?

Thanks, Eddie

skinner · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2005, 04:26:42 PM »

Eddie in Delta I would say that it is a safe guess to say you live in Delta or real close by. I also hunt in Utah quite allot I hunt a little further south over in escalante valley. you can not go wrong with the 223 in your area their is a lot of open areas for long shots and the 223 will allow you do make them. I would suggest that you look in to the HR/NEF Handi rifle in 223 they are a great little single shot rifle and the price makes them just that much better of a deal. I assume that you don't plan on keeping the pelts. if that is true a coyote is a great practice target for that 300 :roll: also if you call a coyote in to with in 40 yards that 12 gauge will do the job real nice job. use #4 buck.
Your dads friend could be wright coyotes can get real educated to different calls. their are different ways to present the sound that may be just different enough that you can fool them. get your self a couple of different mouth calls and practise with them when you can make the neighbors dogs go nuts then you got it. :eek: you can also get your self a tape of a woodpecker sounds and put it in to a tape player and use it. It may not be the best e-caller but it will work if you want go to predator master web site and go to the forum that deals with e-callers and they have several ideas on how to make your own caller for about 30 dollars.
well happing hunting let us know how it goes
Skinner

oso45-70 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2005, 06:17:04 PM »

Eddie in Delta,

I see you are a new poster on GBO, Let me say welcome to the forum.
I was in Delta this past spring visiting friends. Nice country, Great for hunting and calling critters. I think Skinner is rite about the new england rifle as a starter gun, Most of the ones i have had were pretty accurate and don't cost an arm and leg, With a scope of about 3x9 you should have good luck. If you can get your hands on some calling tapes you might pick up some pointers. I would almost bet you have some people in your area that might go with you, Great way to make good friends. Best of luck to ya Eddie.........Joe..........

Special Ed · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2005, 02:30:09 AM »

Skinner is right on with the Handi rifle. Probably the best bang for your buck out there. I have shot one in 223, very impressive little gun.

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2005, 04:49:53 AM »

Quote from: Special Ed

Skinner is right on with the Handi rifle. Probably the best bang for your buck out there. I have shot one in 223, very impressive little gun.

I agree. I've loaded for a good many Handi Rifles in several calibers, and most of them are impressive shooters. My uncle has the 223, and it shoots extremely good with nearly anything you care to run through it.

SD Handgunner · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2005, 03:46:08 PM »

Welcome to the site.

Personally I think you would be wise to go to get the video "Calling all Coyotes" by Randy Anderson. This video is very educational (and entertaining), with portions of the video showing different calls, how to use them and the sounds you can make with them. Granted not every person can make every call sound the same, the basic sound you are after is similar. I think most Predator Callers probably have tried several different mouth calls before they found that just right one that appeals to them and they can produce the best sound from.

Mouth calls come in Closed Reed and Open Reed Designs. For a beginner the Close Reed Calls are easier to master, but the Open Reed Calls are more versatile in the sounds that can be produced with them. Personally I like the Sceery AP3 Jackrabbit Call. It has a raspy sound that just has to tell the Coyote something is really hurtin. However up here in the cold country this call freezes up quite easily (a problem that you shouldn't experience). I have since switched to mostly Open Reed Calls just for this very reason. There are a lot of great mouth calls available now a days, and the best part is most don't cost an arm and a leg.

I just finished building my 7th or 8th Home Made E-Caller. I started out building them with Cassette Players, graduated to CD Players, but quickly learned that neither of these types were all that great in cold weather (a problem that you shouldn't have). I now use a Rio 600 MP3 Player as my sound source, and have everything housed in an insulated coffee mug. This is about the similest E-Caller a person can put together, makes for a fun project, and I have about $70.00 invested.

As per the Rifle / Cartridge for Predators, I use two interchangeably depending on the set up. If I am thinking I am going to have a longish shot I use a .243 with 70gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips. However this Bullet is not particularly Fur Friendly (shot one Christmas morning at 150 - 200 yards, hit the shoulder and the off side was all but gone). Otherwise I use a .223 Remington. While I haven't shot a Coyote with them yet, I will be trying out the Winchester / USA White Box 45gr. JHPs in the .223. From what I have heard from others that use this ammo, they have said it works great on Coyotes, sometimes blowing up inside without exiting.

Good luck with your endeavor, and don't be afraid to get out there and start calling to get your feet wet. Once you call in that first Coyote you'll be hooked.

Larry

Dogshooter · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2005, 04:20:01 PM »

I highly reccommend the 204. I live in SW Wyoming and use one quite a bit. It has sent my AR to the locker.

Catfish · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2005, 02:11:14 PM »

For my choice of rounds I would recomand the .204 Ruger, the .17 Rem. and the .223 in that order. I do agree with abt. everyone else in that the NEF or the H&R would be the way to go, and any of the rounds I named would be an excellant choice. If you go with the .223 and can place the bullets in the chest the 40 grn. bullets would be excellant with about no hide damage. The 55 gr. bullets would be a better choice if your going through shoulders or shooting running shots from behind, but you`ll get alot more hide damage. I would also recomand you put a good 4X scope on it. I use 3 x 9 Leupolds on most of my varmint rifles, but since they were out of my price range when I was your age I`ll guess that they are out of yours. If you can find a good old Weaver steel tube K-4 that still transfers light well it would probibly be your best buy for the money.

Eddie in Delta · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2005, 04:17:42 PM »

Thanks for the replies everyone! Since I'm basically a first generation hunter (my dad is more of a fisherman), it's nice to have a place to have your questions answered.

Is there a website I could look at NEF rifles at? As some of you guessed, I live in the thriving metropolis of Delta, and we only have one store that sells guns now. No NEF's. Also, what is the cost of ammo for the .204 compared to the .223?

I bought a few mouth callers a few days ago. I've only used one so far, the Primos Raspy Coaxer. It sounds like a dying duck when I blow through it. Is that how it's supposed to sound? Are you supposed to make a sound with your mouth when you blow through it?

Thanks again for all the help!
Eddie

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2005, 04:50:40 PM »

On the NEF question, there's a H&R/NEF forum right here on GBO that's as good as any I've run across on the net.

As far as making the proper sounds, I went through the same thing when I started trying to call predators. It took me almost two years before I ever actually called one in. You don't want to waste all the time I did trying to guess at what you need to sound like. I even had a little bit of experience from hearing a few actual rabbits squeal in my life.

Do what I did. Go buy(or order) a Johnny Stewart cottontail distress tape, and listen, no, "study" the sounds you're hearing, untill you get a feel for it. Once you've listened to the tape a couple dozen times, start trying to make similar(you'll never be an exact copy) sounds, and sequences with your mouth calls.

Once you've got pretty decent with the fixed reed calls, order you a Sceery AP-6, and practice with it a lot. By a lot, I mean if the whole family isn't mad at you, and every cat or dog around doesn't hate you, you're not practicing enough. Do your practicing at home, and "never" where you plan to hunt.

Most guys won't tell you this, but I will. If you're planning on ever getting truly decent at calling predators, you've got a Loooooong road ahead of you. The best part is, it's one of the best experiences you'll ever have the privilege of enjoying when it comes to hunting. Half the fun for me has been learning so much over such a long time by making silly mistakes, and seeing how even a juvenile predator can capitalize on it, and make you feel like a complete fool at times!

Have fun in your new venture, and good luck!

skinner · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2005, 06:37:39 PM »

Eddie in Delta you can also go to varmit Als web site he has sounds you can listen to that will help you out
http://www.varmintal.com/

Eddie in Delta · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2005, 12:22:51 PM »

I looked at some online gun dealers and it seems like I can get an NEF for about the price I could get a used bolt gun. Would you recommend the used route? I got my .300WM used and it shoots better than I do, but did I just get lucky?

Thanks,
Eddie

trotterlg · « **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2005, 02:30:49 PM »

I got my Savage 110 22-250 for $235.00 at a pawn shop. Thing shoots great, I think they are about the ultimate Coyote gun, I shoot in the spring in Arizona, great rifle for the flat wide open desert. Look around, you will probably find one.

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2005, 04:12:46 PM »

If money is tight right now and you don't want to invest in a new gun at the moment you have a long range rifle in your rack now. A lot of guys will howl and rant and rave but the 300 Winny would make an excellent super longe range preditor rifle if it will shoot an inch or less at 100yds. For a short range gun load up the 12 gauge with buckshot. Makes an excellent close in gun. :money:

LarryL · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2005, 07:19:13 AM »

Hi,

I have a Bushmaster V-Match purchased this past fall. I just added a Mueller 4-16X scope to it. I had been looking at ARs for years and finally broke down and bought one. Primarily I got it to do some longer distance target shooting and plinking, and just because I wanted one. I know a guy who goes coyote hunting a bit, and has invited me to go along. The Bushmaster has the 1 in 9 twist rate, and should stabilize most bullet weights.

I saw one earlier poster who recommended the 40 gr .223 loads for coyotes, or possibly the 55 gr loads for through shoulder shots.

I'm really not too concerned about the pelts. For the most part, hunting coyotes up here in NH is more pest control than anything else. Also, NH coyotes can be pretty big compared to the western coyotes.

I would think the 55 gr load would be a little more stable in wind, and would also have a bit more punch for bigger coyotes?

Any value in trying some of the even longer heavier .223 bullets?

I've never hunted coyotes intentionally. Prior experience is limited to the occasional shot at one during deer season. Any advice you seasoned yote hunters might have for me would be greatly appreciated!

trotterlg · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2005, 12:48:23 PM »

Wind drift is mostly a matter of how long the bullet is in route to the target, so the faster it gets there the less drift it has. For ranges out to 200 yards or so the 40gr fast bullet has more energy than a 50gr slower one. Larry

LarryL · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2005, 02:13:51 AM »

Does the 40gr have sufficient killing energy and penetration for coyotes out at >200yds?

Sorry if I am asking dumb questions. This is a new sort of hunting for me. Usually I am hunting deer where one is using big handgun bullets or 150-180 gr rifle bullets, and a .223 would not be advised at all. I did plenty of woodchuck hunting when I was younger, but that was either at 50yds or less with a .22 rimfire, or longer ranges and a 220 Swift I used to own. Certainly small fast bullets, but a woodchuck is pretty small and easy to kill. A New England coyote is a 40-55 pound animal, and a 40 gr bullet seems awfully small. Maybe that is just a perception on my part. The proof is on the field, and if you all have experience that it works great, then that's good enough for me!

Thanks again for the advice!

Phant0m51 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2005, 07:35:54 PM »

A 40 gr ballistic .223 round has more than enough energy to kill a coyote. I've read stories (this is here-say, so don't take this as the all out bible truth) of people shooting the new .204 ruger with 32 gr. V-Max Hornady shells and killing yotes out to 250 yards. The 40 gr. hits even harder, and most 40 gr .223 rounds hit as hard, or a little less than, the .204.

My guess is that if you had a clean shot to the lungs at 325 yards, you could do it with a 40 gr .223 easily.

PS

Most of my data and content in this post is from looking at the .204 and .223 on paper. Actual ballistics reports vary between altitudes, temperature, air pressure, etc. So take this as useful information, but not as the absolute truth.

Qaz · « **Reply #18 on:** February 07, 2005, 08:35:58 AM »

Eddie, I would tend to agree with Nightrain on this. I would also suggest using what you have until you are calling in coyotes regularly.

I live in the east where shots are short, ie, you are more easily discovered by the coyote. I use a 12ga and #4 buck out to 50yrds or a 17HMR with 20gr XTP out to 100yrds. But to be honest, shots are far and few between, not because they are not here in numbers, but because they have been educated. These are the guns I started with and have found no reason to buy anything else.
The name of the game in calling is to get your animal as close as possible. You will find it more enjoyable and exciting using the shotgun up close.

I B Papa · « **Reply #19 on:** March 01, 2005, 03:46:11 PM »

Getttin in late on this but the .223 handi is a real nice gun and a heck of a buy. I'm new to Graybeards forum like you and new to the sport but here seems like a darn good place to start learning. I bought the .223 handi and did so for the price and the reports of how good the thing shoots. :gun4:

kenscot · « **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2005, 03:47:52 AM »

I picked up browning micro hunter in 223 sweet little rifle but I am not sure it will beat my handi 243 that will put 80 gr bullets into lell than .5" all day long ( not to worried about the hide)

zapper223 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2005, 12:22:05 PM »

I have a few different that I can and do use for coyotes. The one I use the most is a 223 bull barrel handi with a 3-9-40 nikon buckmasters on it. The 223 is a great cal. for coyotes and the 45 grain win. white box are good as well . They shoot great in my gun, just one thing from my experience . You have to make a good shot ie: behind the shoulder, any shot on larger dogs that hits shoulder or large bone can cause the bullet to fragment too early , and leave you trying to track the coyote, which is very hard due to long hair, and poor blood trail. That said, I have killed a couple dozen with these loads and most didn't get far, but alot ,even when hit in lungs ran 50-60 yards ( shots ranged from 150 -200). I now use 50grain custom loaded V-max, and they do a number on them ,with a little more margin for error .
Good-Luck,
zapper :-)

LarryL · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2005, 02:27:23 PM »

I'll probably use 55-55 gr loads. My shots will probably not exceed 200yds, but New England coyotes are pretty large. I should do fine with my Bushmater V-Match. I love the Mueller MilDot scope with the lit reticle, and I also put a bipod on it now. I'm waiting for the damn snow to stop so I can get out and do some longer range sighting in now.

earschplitinloudenboomer · « **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2005, 09:39:54 PM »

Eddie;
If you have some one locally that you can depend on to advise you, there is nothing wrong with a good used rifle. Often you will find one that is in perfect working order with a slight "ding" in the stock or some other superficial flaw. Check the supermarket "trading" magazines, try to visit a local gun show or even place a classifide add (who knows, Aunti Hilda, just down the street may be looking for a way to get rid of something real nice). As for caliber, the .243/6mm class will give you the varmint/deer dual roll choice.