Alibi question

[flintski]

Okay, question number 1: if you have a 22 shell that doesn't go off what do you do? Go to the next target and then finish the rack, then ask for an alibi for that target? Why can't you just crank in another shell and shot the original target the put the 6 shell in the clip to shoot number 5 target.  Instead of calling and alibi after and having the rest of the people waiting for you to load one shell and shoot that taget....
I know that you can only have 5 round in the clip, but why can't you just pull out another shell and get on with it..??

Question number 2: If you hit the rail and your target goes down that is a hit, now what happens if 2 or more goes down?   Do you take other targets still up on your bank from left to right again or what.  I guess that you should tell someone what you are doing but what is the correct condition?

BPCR don't have alibis for ammo.

new guy on the block, flint

[Hornetx60]

What happens at regular monthly matches and what happens at championship matches are two completely different things! You will have to learn what what the Match directors in your area do in this situation. 1st off you never get to count more than one target for one fired shot!.  You get the one you fired at, and then you must get alibis for the others.
At matches in my area when you have a miss fire you merely remove the missfire replace it and continue firing. It keeps the match moving. This is relying on the HONOR system, which works 99.9% of the time.  What I would suggest is that you either tell your spotter or the shooter beside you, or a bystander what you are doing. If you stop the impression of impropriety then there will never be a question. But in a championship if you encounter a missfire don't even lift the bolt. The reason is a line officer must check the round to insure that it is in fact a miss fire...meaning that it has a firing pin strike mark on it.   If you do not have enough animals present on your present bank of 5 animals...shoot through them in succession and then start over if you have left any. If you have cleaned the rail and still need animals you can go back to a previous rail of your own or someone else's( Please tell this shooter first). or you can use your next rail and then pick up any alibi animals at the end of the relay this also helps to keep the match moving. Once again this is something you must ask you match director at the clubs you shoot at. And always let some one know when you are going off your bank or back to the beginning of your bank...even if you are just talking out loud. It will stop anyone from later questioning what you where doing and why. Make sure you understand the difference in the rules when you go to a championship!!! This is important you could loose a bunch of animals just because you didn't know the rules and that is know ones fault but the competitors. Some of the rules are relaxed a bit at monthly matches for the sake of moving the matches along since many of them around where I shoot are 2 60 round matches in a day. But you must know the difference.  Good Luck and buy a rule book. When in doubt look it up. and add the yearly updates to the book.

[flintski]

I guess you can buy a rule book from the NRA, right?  Do they have them on the web page?  I really don't want to mess up in a match......

[tirador]

flinstki, Hornetx60 gave you good advice and just so that you and others that have questions regarding alibis, the last paragraph of the rule 10.9 states:

"The competitor may choose, instead, to replace the defective cartridge or to clear the malfunction and continue to fire.  If this choice is made, the competitor forfeits the opportunity to claim an alibi and will not be given additional time."

So do what you want to do, either way is perfectly within the rules at either monthly or Championship matches and remember that you only get one alibi for defective cartridge and one for equipment malfunction.

[Hornetx60]

Flintski You are going to mees up at matches. Don't worry about it every one does it at some point. There are two types of shooters Those that have already made the mistake and those that will yet make it. You have to make mistakes to learn so don't be afraid of messin up. We have all done it......

[flintski]

I tried finding on the NRA site a way to buy a rule book but without and success. Any sugestions? Is the rule book on silhouetting that big? Could someone email me a scaned copy of the section on 22 silhouette rules.
catmasher1 @ yahoo. com

thanks for the help so far.......

[Hornetx60]

Go to the NRA.ORG I believe. and thanks to Tirador for correcting that part of the rule.  The rules is rifle silhouette aren't all that difficult but it will take some time to understand them. Just ask questions of the match directors or line officers
Try this URL
http://materials.nrahq.org/go/products.aspx?cat=Rulebooks
Bill R

[flintski]

that's the problem, i'm surpose to help the match director as a line/range officer this summer at our local matches here in Kaysville, Utah.
thanks for the link.
flint

[flintski]

that web site took me right to the rule books, ordered a couple of different books.
thanks again for the help, I knew someone could help me.

[alsmith]

We have had the following question come up at a couple of silhouette matches as to what is a legitimate alibi when ammunition does not fire.

     --If the ammunition that does not fire is factory ammo and the shooter stops when the misfire happens and asks for an alibi we generally consider this to be a legitimate alibi.

     --If the ammunition that does not fire is reloaded ammo and the shooter stops when the misfire happens and asks for an alibi we have mixed reviews as to whether it is a legitimate alibi.

Your views and feedback are appreciated as we are trying to forestall problems when this problem arises in the future.

Al Smith

[eroyd]

I think an Alibi should be rewarded for a "dud" regardless of whether or not it was factory or handload. That handloaded dud might be so for the same reason a factory round might be. (faulty primer, contaminated or no charge). It happens.  :oops:

[alsmith]

What we have run into was the following:

1.  A misfire alibi was requested.

2.  When the range officer asked what the problem was the shooter indicated that a reloaded bullet had not fired properly.

3.  Here is the conundrum:

     --One person maintains that if it was a reload and especially if it was a reload done by the shooter than the misfire was caused by the shooter and should not be considered a legitmate alibi.

     --The other person that reviewed the misfire maintained that a misfire is a misfire and therefore the alibi was legitimate.

I can see both sides of the argument and am looking for the opinions of others as to how they would have handled it.

Al

[nomad]

I can tell you what's 'supposed' to happen but the rule has been subverted so often that it hasn't got any teeth left in it.

We had problems with LOTS of failures to fire and subsequent requests for alibis. (This pertains, naturally, to centerfire. When talking rimfire, any round that is struck and fails to fire is IMO an alibi.)

The rule was intended to eliminate the clowns who showed up -- often -- at matches with unsafe and improperly loaded ammo. Therefore:
IF the primer is struck normally and the round fails to fire and
IF there is no evidence that the reloader failed to add powder (always a good choice) and
IF the primer is not in backwards and
IF it's the proper ammo for that rifle and
IF it still fails,
THEN: It's an alibi.

If the loader screwed up -- thereby at least inconveniencing all the people on the line smart enough to be able to load ammo that works and maybe endangering them with actually dangerous loads -- then he/she is expected to stand up like a responsible human with a measurable IQ and accept a lost animal.

Since I wrote it, I'm pretty certain that that was the original intent.

Since then, I've heard whiners coming up and crying:
"But I load with a Dillon and I don't have the time to check my ammo. If it's no good (or overcharged or undercharged or the primer's reversed or it's otherwise just lousy ammo) then it must be the machine's fault. 'I' certainly shouldn't have to accept responsibility for my screw-ups. (Mr. Klinton told me that!) Besides, 'I' don't have time to actually make sure that it works right -- 'I'm' too busy! So! If 'I' load s****y ammo that doesn't go off or that ties up my rifle, then everyone ELSE will just have to waste time standing around while 'I' get to shoot again!"

As for factory loaded failures:
1. WHO do you know who shoots factory centerfire in silhouette?
2. HOW often have you seen them have a failure?

As I said, the intent was to make people aware that they were expected to show up with safe ammo that worked and that they wouldn't get alibis for being incompetent reloaders. However, the whiners have prevailed and as it stands now, almost anything that doesn't go BOOM! -- no matter how stupid the reason for the failure -- is given an alibi.

[flintski]

At our black powder cartridge silhouette matches there isn't any alibis except LOST TARGETS.

We should be big boys and should know HOW to reload our ammo the right way.  Check before going to a match, take time in your reloading, that's your responiblily as a reloader.

Now rimfire may be a different story, to keep the shoot going I think that if you have a misfire put the shell down and pull out another one and get to shooting.  I don't think anyone is pushed for time that much that you can't grab another shell and get on with it.

Centerfire YOU are responibile for your ammo, don't forget that.

MY .02 cent worth

[cslcAl]

Nomad,  Very well put. I would like to add that anyone who does not know or understand the rules follow Flintski's lead and buy a rule book. The rules are not THAT complicated, and if more people had a better understanding of them it would make the match directors job a lot easier.
Al Foust