Crimp or no crimp the 250 grain .44 mag Keith load?

[mikemayberry]

Question for all who have made up this load:

Over the 20 grains of 2400 with the Keith hard cast bullet, do you crimp or not crimp?  What has been your experience with and without for accuracy?

Thank you.


Mike

[Dusty Miller]

Well, if you don't crimp, what is to keep the bullet from sliding out of the case.  Super glue is not recommended.

[MtJerry]

If you are shooting out of a revolver, the bullets WILL move out of the case during firing/recoil and will cause a whole world of problems.

If you are shooting out of a single shot rifle (key here is single shot) crimping may not be necessary.  Just have to try both and see what your rifle likes.

Lever guns will need a crimp for the same reason as a revolver - recoil can cause the bullet to move out of the case, OR it may cause the other tounds to push the bullet further into the case which would cause overpressure, gun go boom ... you get the picture.

AND ... some powders do need a strong crimp to burn correctly and get good ignition - 2400 is one of the those powders.

So, in short - I'd say crimp firmly and don't look back.

Hope this helps.

[mikemayberry]

Two good answers so far!

Left out the vital info that this is for a single shot Encore with 12 inch barrel so no rattle to loosen the next shot nor any in-line magazine issues.

My bullets seated rather tightly with the press and don't seem to want to move around any.  Based on your recommendation about 2400 MtJerry, I will try crimping some to see what difference it makes for accuracy.  

These are the first unjacketed bullets I have seated and they set up so well it never occurred to me to crimp given the single shot it will be used in.  

My first efforts were with 18, 19 and 20 grains of the Alliant 2400.  Accuracy was just okay but I was mostly looking for pressure signs.  Seeing none, I will now work up the load more specifically and try the crimping.

Thanks for the information and if anyone else can add to it, please jump on in!

Mike

[Kingfish]

I like a good tight crimp with slow burning powders. Don't have any experiance with single shots but I use regular primers with #2400, LilGun, or #9 and mag primers with H110, W296, or 4227.

Bill

[Lloyd Smale]

I crimp ALL handgun ammo and ammo for lever guns.

[De41mag]

Mike;

MtJerry is right. You need a FIRM crimp to burn that 2400 powder. I've shot thousands of 250gr. Keith bullets, and I'm working on loads right now for my FA Mod. 97 44 Special. And have used 2400 in the special.
But for more velocity and probably better accuracy I would put a crimp on those 250's.
After you put a crimp on those bullets, just keep in mind that you may start to go over 1500fps with 20gr. of 2400. Which in turn might start to lead the barrel, if so drop down about a half of a grain.
Also look at it this way less powder burned means more rounds per pound.
I really like 2400,  it may not give the fastest loads such as H-110 or W-296, but it makes up for it in the accuracy dept.
Good Luck and keep us posted.

Dennis  

[Somerled]

I'd crimp with the 2400 in the Encore. When I haven't crimped with the slow burners, the unburnt grains are noticeably worse in revolvers and rifles. (I haven't reloaded .44 Mags for the Contender or Encore.) It may be that your cast bullets are a bit wider, the chamber or bore are tighter, the case wall thickness at the mouth is wider or the neck sizing plug is a bit undersize. All of those factors and more can affect the burn rate as well.

Another  reason I like to crimp .44s is that the cartridges often get jiggled a lot. I put them in the plastic boxes. The boxes bounce around in truck beds or in trailer behind the ATV. A crimp keeps the bullets from scooting and changing the OAL. The groups open up when that happens.

[mikemayberry]

Everyone,

I am now convinced I should go back and criimp the ones I have put together and not yet shot.  Easy enough to do.

Somerled,

I had not thought about the additional benefit of reducing the unburned powder granules.  That will be another benefit if it shoots a little cleaner too.

I will report back on how it is going and if leading starts or any other changes occur.

Thanks to all of you and if there are more opinions, I am very interested in hearing them.

Mike

[Somerled]

It is important to be as uniform as possible and spend time at the range with a chrono and a notebook to record your observations.

Check the bullet diameters. Cast are usually .001 over jacketed bullet diameters. That isn't always the case.

If you cast your own, not being uniform in the alloy mix can make the bullet diameters, groove and driving band fill outs, and weights vary.

The length of cases has to be uniform when crimping. If not the crimp on longer cases will be tighter. The pressures will be higher and the case wall will bulge or buckle in some instances. Overcrimping is a worse problem than not crimping at all.

If you aren't uniform, it will show up in your chrono readings and on the target. The standard deviation and range of velocity readings will be wider. The groups will open up a lot--often vertically.

This may be "old hat" to you. If so, forgive me.

[mikemayberry]

Somerled,

Certainly not "old hat" to me as I am trying to learn.  

The Keith bullets I am loading are very consistent and very "clean." They are the first ones like this I have loaded.  They are Leadheads from Kansas and as I learn to tweak them I think I will be very happy with them.

Every response to my original question has been informative and valuable.

Thanks,

Mike

[De41mag]

Mike;

I, myself use Leadheads. I think they are the best cast bullets I've found.
Just recieved three 580rnd boxes of the 250 Keith last week. And if you need any help you can call Tommy Mace and he will be glad to help you. (The man who owns Leadheads).
Keep us posted of your results.

Dennis  

[MtJerry]

Mike;

I, myself use Leadheads. I think they are the best cast bullets I've found.
Just recieved three 580rnd boxes of the 250 Keith last week. And if you need any help you can call Tommy Mace and he will be glad to help you. (The man who owns Leadheads).
Keep us posted of your results.

Dennis  

Thats the same bullet I use too  :grin: .

[De41mag]

MtJerry;

What other bullets from Leadheads have you used?
I've used the 265gr. RNFP-GC in 44 caliber and also used the 185 SWC-Match bullet in 45ACP.

Dennis