Author Topic: Lee conical pistol mould (Read 834 times)

ksbackwoods · « **on:** February 24, 2005, 01:47:02 AM »

Anyone use these? If so how do you like them?
I have a 58 remington replica and am thinking about getting a conical mould for it but would like ya'lls opinion on them, and what kind of powder charge would you use for this since they will be a little heavier than a round ball? :-)

Gatofeo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2005, 01:25:52 PM »

I use the Lee conical bullet in my Uberti-made copy of the Remington .44 Army.
It's the most accurate conical I've found to date --- but that's not saying a great deal. I've yet to find a conical that beats or even equals a lead ball of .454 or .457 inch diameter. I avoid .451 inch balls, despite what the loading books recommend, as they have not proven as accurate.
Back to the Lee conical:
The most amount of powder I can get under the Lee, in my Remington, is 30 grs. of Goex FFFG. And that's with a 30 gr. powder measure so actual weight would be about 28 grs. (my measure throws a little less than marked).
I'm not sure what the velocity is. I'd guess around 900 fps. The old .45 Colt black powder used 40 grs. of black powder under a 250 gr. bullet for about 900 fps.
The Lee throws a bullet of about 210 grains, when cast of very soft lead (BHN 5).
I load the Lee without a felt wad under the bullet, since I need all the room I can get for powder. A felt wad occupies about the same space as 5 grains of FFFG black powder.

It's an okay bullet. Fun to play with. At 25 yards from a benchrest, six-shot groups are about 4 inches, with an occasional group making 3 inches. But a lead ball over a well-lubricated felt wad, propelled by the same 30 grs. of Goex FFFG will get groups half that size on enough occasions to warrant shoting that load regularly.
But of all the conical bullets I've tried --- Lyman, Buffalo, Alberts (now defunct) and replicas of the original conical bullet --- the Lee has been the most accurate for me.
It's a tight fit to load in my Pietta-made 1860 Colt, however. The Remington has a little more room around the rammer to get a bullet in the chamber before ramming.

Incidentally, I lubricate the Lee bullet with my favorite home-brew bullet lubricant. This recipe dates to the 19th century:
1 part mutton tallow (sold by Dixie Gun Works)
1 part canning paraffin (sold in groeery stores)
1/2 part beeswax
All measurements are by weight, not volume. I use a kitchen scale to measure 200/200/100 grams of ingredients then melt them in a widemouth, quart Mason jar placed in boiling water. This makes an exceptional bullet, patch and felt wad lubricant suitable for all black powder applications.

Yesterday, I received my new Chrony Gamma Master chronograph via UPS. I hope to run some black powder revolver loads through it soon.
My previous Chrony bit the dust when I accidentally put a .380 Auto bullet through its guts with my Walther PPK. :eek:

ksbackwoods · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2005, 12:29:57 AM »

wow, thanks for all the info, It sounds like it will be fun to play with even if it's not as accurate as round balls.
congrats on the new chrony, one of these days I'm going to get one.

Shorty · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2005, 01:53:11 PM »

ksbackwoods,
Gatofeo is the MAN.
I will only add that the problem with conicals is that they are just too short (ballistically) to stabilize. Now, if they were hollow-base as in a Minie, they might work well. But then how could they be loaded in a revolver?

Gatofeo · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2005, 06:54:45 AM »

In one of the other sites, a greatly experienced cap and ball shooter tried a .44 revolver with hollow-based conicals from a special mould.
He reported that accuracy was basically unchanged. No profound improvement.
However, seems to me that a hollowbased bullet would be a means to get a smidgen more powder in the chamber: fill the base with FFFG black powder and glue a disk of tissue paper over it.
The main charge ignites, the tissue paper burns, the charge in the base ignites and you might get a smidgen more velocity from it.
Not much, mind you. And there may be more variation in velocity shot-to-shot over what you'd gain.
Be a interesting experiment, though.

Shorty: The old, traditionally-shaped conicals of the Civil War and so on were awfully short, and I believe they didn't stabilize well, but the Lee design is longer.
I don't think the inaccuracy of the Lee or other conicals stems from ballistic instability, so much as it stems from ramming the cursed thing straight into the chamber.
The Lee, with its heel, helps a great deal but that rammer nose is not perfectly mated to any conical's nose. I believe that while we usually can't see it, even the best of the conicals are not often seated straight because of variances in the rammer nose, chamber diameter, bullet diameter and who knows what else?
But a round ball is different. It's awfully difficult to seat it kerslonchwise in a hole.

I too the new Chrony Gamma Master chronograph out last Sunday. Yowsah! Love having that little printer whirring away with each shot, printing out each shot's velocity in a 10-shot string. Then you hit a button on the printer and it prints out the highest and lowest velocities of that 10-shot string, difference between the high and low, and standard deviation for all shots. Niceeeeeeeeeeee ...
And like the Chrony people advertise, you simply tear off the slip of paper and staple it to the target you used, for future reference.
I took my Smith & Wesson Model 17 .22 revolver, and Walther PPK .380 out with it, just to learn its operation.
It was the same PPK that destroyed my last Chrony with an errant shot.
Yep ... the ol' desert cat loves to tempt the Fates .... heh heh ... :twisted:

mec · « **Reply #5 on:** March 06, 2005, 07:21:49 AM »

Closely related note to Gatofeo's post. I've just tried some of the box set replica mould bullets in my new Uberti 61 navy. At 60 feet- shooting with a should stock, I get several rounds into a nice, under two inch group but then a flier will open it up. One such group- trying hard from a rest, was five to seven inches with the flier.

I had some high hopes from this accurate revolver because the bullet group I shot at 50 yards was an evenly distributed 5". Unfortunately it was a fluke.

Ive shot some of the Buffalo bullets in .36 and found them almost as accurate as round ball. My 58 REmington turned in a pretty nice group with the Lee Conical and some so-so ones with a couple of colt type .44s. So far, nothing approaches the accuracy of RB for me

I can enjoy shooting the replica mould bullets in a .31 pocket model. This is because I can't shoot a pocket model well enough to see or enjoy the difference in accuracy/.