Author Topic: 22-250 accuracte load trouble (Read 685 times)

Shane in WI · « **on:** March 07, 2005, 12:30:58 PM »

I have a M70 Featherweight in 22-250 I've been working on. Just trying to get an accurate load. I've tried both 50 gr Vmax and 52 gr Match, Hdy bullets along w/ Varget, H4350, and Benchmark powder. Using Win brass and primers, I varied the seating depth and tried neck sizing. I also free floated the barrel which helped some. Trigger is set at 3.5#'s and I have changed the scope so I don't think these are the problems. I have shot 3.8" groups with both my 30-06 and my 338 so I can't blame my shooting for everything.
The result is always the same, 1 1/4" to 1 3/4" groups at 100 yards. Sometimes worse, but just over an inch is about all I can get out of it. I realize this isn't bad, just looking for better? Is that unrealistic for a light rifle barrel? The lands are to far out to load bullets close to them. They would be too long for the magazine and only be into the neck 1/16" which I don't think is enough. Maybe this is the problem? I have not bedded the rifle, or tried heavier bullets yet.
Where should I turn next? Or am I to the point of selling it and buying a bull barrel bolt gun.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #1 on:** March 07, 2005, 12:47:31 PM »

Not meaning to disturb you, but I've got a ruger 77 ultra light in a .243 and 1.5 inches is about the best I can get out of it.........IMO, the ultra lights are not capable of the accuracy of a heavy barrel, but I've read that some of them shoot less than an inch at a hundred yards.......that has not been my experience.......

jhalcott · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2005, 04:45:38 PM »

shane ,try to space your shots several MINUTES apart.The skinny barrel heats up quickly,but cools slower.Take a second gun to the range to keep from getting bored.The feather weight was not designed to shoot "bug holes",just be easier to lug around.

ricciardelli · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2005, 07:26:47 PM »

3.8" groups?

Weatherby223 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2005, 01:20:49 AM »

You need to explain how the bullets are grouping. Stringing ETC... This will help with the diagnosis. Many things can be picked up simply by looking at the groups. Then the guys on here may be able to help you further...

Shane in WI · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2005, 05:28:14 AM »

There really isn't any grouping. All shots are pretty much the same 1 1/4" groups. One load had 4 shots horizontal stringing, one had 3 in a nice triangle 3/4" and one to the right (1 1/4") Last night I loaded some 40 grain v-max to try and some 52 gr Match bullets w/ Varget. There just doesn't seem to be any better or any worse loads w/ the rifle. I am letting it cool between groups. I'm thinking bedding the rifle might be the next step. It is a wood stock and I sanded out the channel to free float the barrel. It was touching on one side before. Groups got better slightly. Just don't know what the feather weight should be capable of. Handloads are much better than factory rounds. One thing is there is a alot of room ahead of the bullet before it hits the lands. Just can't load them that far out. Would having the barrel set tighter, help anything?

Shane in WI · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2005, 09:54:21 AM »

I see my mistake. Not 3.8" groups, but 3/8" groups out of the 30-06 and 338 wm. Both of those rifles shot pretty good w/o alot of load workup. Nothing like this anyway. Thanks for the help.

adirondacker · « **Reply #7 on:** March 08, 2005, 12:11:55 PM »

i would try a different powder if shooting and letting the barrel cool doesn't help.i have a custom 22-250 on an old remington action.with 4064 powder 52 grns sierra matchking it will put 5 practically through one hole at 100 yds.i've only done it a couple of times but the gun is capable.

wanted a varmit load so i loaded some 50 grn v-max over various wheights of h-335 ,tried all the normal procedures best i could get was 2 1/2" at 100.gave some to a freind to try in his weatherby,thing shot like 1/2 at 100.i never even fit them to his chamber,his gun loved them.in order to get the v-max to shoot in mine i had to go back to 4064,still not as good as the match bullets but i get 3/4 " if i do my part.been good enough for more than 20 coyotes.

not that any of these loads would shoot worth beans outta your rifle,just shows that sometimes they can be a little finicky.

zrifleman · « **Reply #8 on:** March 08, 2005, 03:13:01 PM »

Shane-The fact that you can't seat bullets to touch the rifling suggests that the chamber has too much free bore or that the throat is shot out. You did not say if the rifle is new or not. Too much free bore is detrimental to accuracy. Seating bullets to touch rifling or within .003-.005 is ideal. I have had standard weight barrels shoot inside of .500 for 5 shots. To fix the throat problem you need to have the barrel set back at least 1 turn and rechambered--a job for a competent gun smith. Do you know the rate of twist?? 1-14 usually does best with 40-50 gr bullets. 1-12 will handle up to 55-60 gr. My best loads have been with 40 gr V-max and Vitavhouri N-140.

Shane in WI · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2005, 09:18:33 AM »

I thank everyone for their help. I have a few more loads to try tomorrow w/ different bullets. I may keep this gun for a hunting rifle and look to buy a heavier barreled gun to do what I want. Any suggestions on rifle brands for a "hunting/target" rifle? I don't have any rifles w/ the laminated stocks so I think this would be a good place to start.

wolfpack · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2005, 07:01:13 AM »

Shane,
I have been through this with a winchester 7mm WSM the groups were around 1.5 to 2" no matter where I seated the bullet or what powder or charge I used. I also would build up copper in the barrel pretty quick. I ordered one of the Tubb Final Finish Systems and the first time out a load I had worked up before that shot 1.5" now shots 3 shots in less than .5". Also for an accurate 22-250 I just bought a Savage 12BVSS The first load I worked up yesterday shot less than .25" 3 shot group at 100 yrds. The worst load shot 1.00". I love the gun and it's pretty cheap to boot. The accutrigger can be set pretty low and is breaks clean.
Good luck

Handgunr · « **Reply #11 on:** March 14, 2005, 03:38:47 AM »

Shane,

The suggestion to 4064 "adirondacker" made was a good one. I shoot a Rem. 700VSSF which comes with an HS Precision stock. The previous owner (shooting buddy of mine) had the stock muzzle recrowned to a "Savage style" which enhanced the groups even more than the original.

My best load to date is 35.2 grs of 4064 under a 55gr Vmax in Remington brass, using a Fed GM Match (regular) primer. 5 shots at 100yds. group into one hole. I don't seat the bullets to touch the rifling, as this is impractical for most magazines, or hunting situations. This works fine in single shots, or where you load one round at a time in a bolt gun, but in my personal situations, I don't bother.
Although best accuracy can be achieved more times than not, by doing this, it's not always necessary. Experimenting with the bullet, or cartridge OAL, within the magazine's length, can get you an excellent and very usable load.
Other than 4064, IMR4895 is also a good place to start. Varget is a good powder as well, but I've only been working loads with it over the past year or so. It shows a good tolerance to variations in temperature, unlike other powders, and the one thing I've noticed with it so far, is that it either works great, or terrible. It seems the middle ground isn't that wide with it, but like I said, my experience with it so far has been limited.

Ball powders which have a great showing in the .22-350 are W748, W760,BL-C2, H380, H335 and H414. Although H380 has been touted as being the "Holy Grail" of powders in the .22-250, BL-C2 and H414 have given me better performance over the years.
Hodgdon (up until the purchase of IMR) has never produced it's own powders and has bought them over the years, mainly from Olin (Winchester). Hodgdon, recently admitted that their HS6 & HS7 powders, were in fact, W540 & W571, due to the fact that Olin discontinued 540 & 571.
I tested W231 against Hodgdon's HP38 last fall, and with the same exact load components & weights. I got the same results within .5fps, and all ES & SD numbers were virtually indentical. Accuracy was "as good" or better.
It's nice to know as W231 is about $4-$5 dollars more per pound than HP38.

In a nutshell; due to their burn rates, performance over a chronograph, as well as powder weights and appearance, my suspicions are that W748 is in fact BL-C2.

Not to ramble on, but try some different powders before you jet that rifle, you might be surprised.
With the sporter barrel, let her cool well between shots. If you opt for a new gun, my variety is a good choice (at least for me), and for a "best buy", comparing price to accuracy, Savage's bullbarreled bench gun with the new adjustable trigger would be my choice. Savage's trigger was always the "weak link" with their guns, and now that they've addressed that issue, they've become winner's in my eyes.

Good luck,
Bob

Shane in WI · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2005, 04:36:40 AM »

I was able to shoot the rifle again this weekend but wasn't able to improve much on the groups w/ 2 new and different loadings.
I did go the a few shops and check out the Savage rifle as well. Pretty nice gun I thought. That's where I was leaning as well. I have a shooting contest this weekend (small and informal, but lots of fun) I decided to take my 30-06 as it shoots much better than this 22-250. One more thing I was told to try was plugging the end of the barrel and filling w/ oil, so that's setting right now.