My picky .41 magnum Redhawk

[anachronism]

Hi Veral,
I have a .41 mag. Ruger Redhawk that seems to hate cast bullets. I've tried the usual "production" moulds, and also one of your 265 gr. LFNGC moulds. Now I'm hearing that .41 Redhawks really don't like any heavy bullet, and I'm wondering what your experiences have been with the Redhawk. I did recut the forcing cone, the original FC looked as if it was cut with a rat-tail file, but didn't get any real improvement. This particular revolver shoots jacketed bullets well, with loads it likes, but I've spent at least ten years, off and on trying to make it shoot cast without success. Any suggestions as to what to look at next?

Regards,
Bob

[unclenick]

What is the rate of twist on the 41?  It may be too slow for long bullets at low velocity?  You find a number of guns with standard twists just won't shoot a wadcutter without keyholing.  Are you seeing keyholing; even just slightly oval holes in paper?

Firelap the gun with Veral's kit.  Revolvers often have a constriction around the throat because the barrel threads are tight enough in the frame to squeeze it down.  This affects cast bullets more than jacketed ones in my experience, though jacketed ones will shoot a lot better if you eliminate it.  Firelapping will also clean up your throat where bullets touch it.

You can also send the gun to the factory with an accuracy complaint and they will ream the cylinders uniform and check your timing.

Nick

[anachronism]

I was probably too brief with my descriptions of the symptoms. The Redhawk shoots no cast bullet to an acceptable degree of accuracy. I've loaded cast bullets as light as 116 gr. (a cute little button wadcutter), I've tried 220 gr. (Lyman) Keiths, 210 gr (RCBS) Keiths, Lyman 410610, Lyman 199 gr. full wadcutters, commercial cast, alloys as low as 10 bhn, and as hard as pure linotype at a genuine 22bhn, with several intermediate steps. Ruger replaced the original cylinder in the Redhawk the year after it was made, at my request. The original cylinder was bored incorrectly. Slugging the bore produces uniform slugs measuring a uniform .410, this includes slugging the barrel from both ends of the tube. I recut the forcing cone to 11 degrees, lapped it, and went ahead and did a fine firelapping of the bore, to see if it made a difference. The chamber throats average .4105, I tried sizing the bullets at .410 & .411. .411 showed improvement, but 25 yard groups still measure about 6 inches. With it's favorite jacketed load, we can hold it down to 2 to 2-1/2 inches, if I do my part. I've loaded cast bullets fast, I've loaded them slow, I've experimented with powders until I'm just sick of the whole ordeal. To give you an idea of the experimentaion involved, the Redhawks favorite powder for jacketed is AA5744. You have to do a lot of development to push you to the point where you try 5744 in a revolver, there are a lot more mainstream powders to work with! I'm willing to give the Redhawk one more chance, but it's on thin ice right now.

Bob

[475/480]

Sell it and buy a SBH Hunter 41 mag mine shoots 255,295 and 305gr cast bullets 2.5" or less at 50 yds with the right loads.


Sean

[anachronism]

I've just about had it with this particular revolver. I bought it new, almost 20 years ago, and it's the only gun I've NEVER been able to get satisfactory cast bullet accuracy from. I have two .44 Redhawks, and I can get about 2 to 2-1/2 inches all day long with them. I was hoping Veral might be able shed some light on whatever it's problem may be.

Bob

[bob allen]

I have a .41 redhawk also.SAME THING.I have a number of blackhawks
without any problems.And I have several friends with .44 Redhawkes that shoot REALLY great but my ,41 is a real bust,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
                                                                             B.A.

[anachronism]

I sold the ungrateful thing today. I was really close to sending it to Hamilton Bowen, and paying big bucks to have it redone in another caliber, or something stupid like that. The Redhawk didn't deserve my loyalty, now it's a safe queen for one of the local Ruger collectors. Now all I have to do is sell off the brass, dies and a couple of mould sets, and all traces of the darn thing will be eradicated. To add ignominy to the deal, I spent the money on a 9mm!!! I'll go buy a 5-1/2 in. 44 mag to replace it, and be happy again.

Bob

[bob allen]

what molds do you have?
                                     Bob

[anachronism]

what molds do you have?
                                     Bob

The best ones are gone. I put them on the "cast boolits" forum and am down to a Lyman 410610 & a couple of LEE oddballs.

Bob

[Lloyd Smale]

if I had a picky .41 one of the first bullets id try in it is verals 250lfngc ive yet to find a .41 that didnt like it.

[Veral]

This has been an interesting discussion, which happened because I haven't had time to answer the forum for a while.

I feel bad about you having to sell the Redhawk due to not knowing the answer, because when a bullet caster obtains any new caliber, or deletes one, the change is as pricy as the new gun.  In your case, I'm quite convinced a lighter weight bullet would have solved the problem, if the roots where what I'm certain they were.

The Redhawk has a long cylinder and throats are far too long and large in all modern revolvers.  When you rethroated it this problem was made worse, by increasing the bullet jump to rifling.  -- Here is how cast bullets progress through the revolver.  And this is not specific to Redhawks, but to all magnum, or high pressure chamberings.  Understand that the higher the pressure of the loads being used the more the problem is aggravated.  i.e. A lighter bullet can be shot at good stable velocities with lower pressure loads, which minimizes the problem.

If the bullet isn't hard enough to withstand the pressures of interest, it will upset and fill the huge throat in the barrel after leaving the cylinder throat, then have to be swaged back down to barrel diameter.  Pressure jump from this process can be horrendous, enough to split the barrel sometimes, and accuracy will be nonexistant.  The accuracy loss and normally severe leading is caused by the lube being lost out the cylinder gap, and the severe distortion (out of squar.) of the bullet base.  Bullet hardness of 20 bhn is normally adaquate to prevent this problem from becoming serious.

For all long throated guns, my WFN gives bearing farthest forward and strongest, to grab the rifling quickest.  But keep the weight to 250 gr or less for most 41's.    If I had a 41 in any style of Revolver, I would try a 220 gr WFN first, and probably never change.