Longe range hunting

[Bigkahuna]

I see on a lot of sites they have shot animals at great distances.
Apparently takes a lot of work and investment in time and money to make a rifle and have equipment, like what they call big eyes to be able to do those shots of at least 1000Yds.
Computer calculated drop sheets and the whole nine yards, seems like it would be something to be able to do it.
Longest I have ever practised at was 500 yds, anybody here ever try this type of hunting?
Some sites have some very well known long range target shooters and they seem to feel for those skilled enough it is possible, but definitely not a sport for everybody.

[quigleysharps4570]

I've seen pics of their set-ups, quite a deal. Like you said, it's sure not for everyone.

[Don Fischer]

Aside from the fact that range estimation is CRITICAL at those ranges, can anyone tell me what remaining energy and velocity level's are left in any of these cartridge's? I'm to lazy to drag out my crnograph and run it thru the trajectory program. I talked to a guy from an eastern state once that claim's to shoot only at 1000 yds and more with a 6.5-06 Gibbs Imp.
He uses a 140 gr bullet with a muzzle velocity of right at 3000 fps. This ultra long range stuff sound's pretty irresopnsible to me. I'm gonna go the math. Be back soon.

[Don Fischer]

All right, here it is. A 140 gr Hornady with a muzzle velocity of 3000 fps and B.C. of.465 zeroed in at 300 yds.

At 1000 yds it's still traveling at 1345.7 fps (need all the help we can get), Has remaining energy of 563 ft lbs (that's on impact, not in the vitals!) and toe bullet drop's 271.3", that's a bit over 22 1/2 FEET! Yes sir, that's irresponsible!

To figure energy: M.V. x M.V. devided 7000(# grs in a pound) devided x 64.32 (specific weight of gravity) time's bullet weigth in grains.

[quigleysharps4570]

Range is critical. They've got it down to a fine art from what I've seen. I see some use those 2000 meter Swiss rangefinders. Without digging around, don't know the other stats either. One reason it never interested me was the fact that 2-3 guys sit on a hill to deer hunt. When deer season rolls around here...I want to hunt...not spot for someone else.

[buffalobob]

Go up on the internet and do a search for "Carlos Hathcock".  He is a jarhead but don't hold that against him.  Using a semi auto  (m-14) with the lowly 308 caliber shots beyond 1000 meters are common.  Remember the Vietnam snipers did not have laser range finders and hand held computers with drop and windage tables.

Ask yourself this.  When an ex-sniper goes hunting, how does he hunt?

All of the 1000 yd benchrest shooters that go hunting, how do they hunt.

I do not know the truth of it but I have heard that the buffalo hide hunters could make 1000 yard shots with iron sights on a Sharps. Of course a buffalo will just stand there until you finally hit him.

And in case you don't know, the worlds greatest hunt is going on right now in Afghanistan as the Special Forces snipers hunt for that long range shot on Ossama Bin Laden.

One shot , one kill.

To each his own, practice your craft until you are good at it.

[Don Fischer]

Carlos Hathcock, the White Feather warrior from Viet Nam. The super sniper with a huge bounty on his head. Your talking about war, not sport hunting. I've no doubt the ability of some of these guy's, It's to bad that mother nature doesn't always co-operate isn't it? And what of the flubbed shot's, that don't get talked about that leave an animal wounded. I guess I've a bit of a double standard here as shooting 1000 yds at a coyote wouldn't bother me.

But speaking of big game and SPORT HUNTING change's thing's. This is NOT war!!!!!!!!!!!! Let me say it again, SPORT HUNTING!!!!!!!!!!! I know your good with number's so you do the math on remaining velocity and energy at 1000 yds. Pick your cartridge. And with some of these guy's, 1000 yds is the starting range. They're lobbing bullet's into elk at remaining velocities and energy we don't deem reasonable on deer!

You can say to each his own and practice your craft until your good at it, but once again, your relating sport hunting to war; and this ain't war! There are far more ulgy thing's happening in war than that, that does not justify their practice for sporting purposes.

When a bad shot is made and an animal is wounded and left to die, which likely more are than we hear about, that is undignified, as much for the executioner as the condemed. I can find no place in SPORT hunting for that nonsence, it is irresponsible!

[buffalobob]

Did not mean to upset you about the issue.  

My point is that there are some very skillful long range shooters whose abilities at that range are adequate for the task.

[Don Fischer]

I'm not upset. But I feel strongly about ethics in hunting. I see all over the place where people are asking about unreasonable cartridge choices. Perhaps it shouldn't bother me so much for I discovered many of these thing's as likely you have, tried it! The thing that really annoy's me is when these people suggest these unreasonable selection's based on the fact that it work's for them. We both know that lot's of thing's work that we should not talk about as being prudent, I believe you have some of these feelings also; I read your post on the 22-250 vrs 220 swift debate.

I disagree with you here and I've disagreed with another guy that 99% of the time I agree with. At least what you guy's write seem's based on experience that'ss viewed rassionaly. ( As you can see, I don't spell so good!)

[rickyp]

1000 yards is not hunting,  the animal has no idea you are hunting it.
Hunting is putting your skills against the animals.  what they are doing is more along the lines of sniping and it is very unsportsperson like.

IF you read sniper manuals they all tell the sniper team to stalk with in 300 yards of the intended target and with in 500 yards for harassing fire. their is some very good reasons for this.
to many things can go wrong at that distance. you could hit a child playing in the woods a hunter that you didn't see some other animal that just stepped out. the target animal could even walk out of the way of the bullet

[Don Fischer]

Rickyp
Where did you find the sniper manual's? I would like to read them. While I distain shooting at those range's and trying to pass it off with some redeeming value as a hunting method, there is none the less something romantic about it. It has often occurred to me that seldom has 1000 yd shot's been taken and even less successful. When you conceder shooting thru an enviorment you can't control at ranges that, durning Viet Nam, were little better than a guess, likely even 500 yd shot's were more by accident than design.

In years past, friend's of mine and I spent a great deal of time guessing and stepping off ranges. At about 400 yds we were more often wrong than right. Beyond that, we were usually off enough for a complete miss a coyote's.

[rickyp]

Don Fischer,
Shoot me an email about the sniper manuals

[buffalobob]

Technology has changed so you do not have to "estimate range" anymore.
Go up on cabelas under hunting optics and look at the Leica 1200 for about $700.  It claims one meter accuracy.  Wind  you have to deal with but apparently you get a little Palm Pilot  and program it so that it gives you drift for what ever BC bullet you are shooting at whaterver velocity you enter.  This is no longer Kentucky squirrel rifle, Natty Bumpo stuff

Bases are adjustable to allow more elevation adjustment. Guns are much more accurate than they used to be.

Here is an interesting website

http://members.rushmore.com/~mberg/prairiedogs.htm

Go from that page to the Distance records page

Of course they do not say how many times they missed at those ranges.   It is also funny that one guy has on a handgun.  Maybe wounded prairie dogs are dangerous.

[Don Fischer]

Wind is definitely a problem. Anywhere between the muzzle and 1000 plus yds the wind can change. More wind less wind no wind. I think the shooting at paper target's, is one thing but we're still talking about big game animals.

Add to the wind changing, what about retained energy and velocity? And what of bullet construction? Looking thru Hornady's manual, I find no big game bullet from 6.5 to 35 cal that they recommend using at velocities under 1500 fps. I'm not sure what happen's under that but the bullet manufacturer think's it's a bad idea!

How about retained energy. I worked up the 264 cal 140gr at 3000 fps and came up with about 560 ft lbs energy at 1000 yds (see above post for exact figures). My 243 with a 75 gr v-max has about three time's the energy at the muzzle. That load in 243 is not suitable for deer and these guy's, some of them, are using less to shoot at elk size animals.

There is no way that this business of 1000 yd shooting, at big game, can be considered anything other than deplorable. I would suspect that most 1000 yd shooter's don't do that nonsense. The ability to hit at those ranges for those guy's can't be denighed. It's not that that we should question, it's the ability to kill cleanly that's in doubt. I'm quite certain that those deer you shot at with the 70 gr bullet died at some point yet you didn't feel that it was a good idea to hunt deer with it. At 3100 fps that 70 gr 224 cal bullet develope's just under 1500 ft lbs energy, almost triple the 140 gr 6.5 bullet above at 1000 yds. What's the deal here? You can tell me these guy's shoot good and I'll agree, doesn't make them any less ir-responsible.

[dakotashooter2]

to each his own but....

From Websters

Hunt... to pursure with the intention of capturing or killing

Shoot... to kill by doing this

By those definitions some people hunt game while others shoot it. both CAN require incredible skill. I prefer the previous.

[buffalobob]

A little variety in life is good.  

A little dove shooting on the first of September then some bowhunting, then some early muzzle loading and then back to bowhunting, some rifle shooting, more bow hunting , then more muzzle loading then late season geese.  Nearly forgot about the squirrels.  

Short range shots, long range shots, medium range shots.  You take the shots you can make, not those someone else can make.

I should be practicing my turkey calling right now instead of beating on this computer.  If I went turkey hunting to actually kill a turkey, I would be one dejected person.  To me a successful day of turkey hunting is just to get a gobbler to talking.  I have hunted the same old tom three years in a row and we have a pretty cordial relationship now.  I suspect he will survive this spring and that is fine with me because it is just good to get out in the woods in the spring and talk to him.

Most of the 7mm mags- wby, Rem, STW, RUM, 7-300, Lazzeroni will carry 1000 pounds out to 1000 yds.  If you want more then move up to the 30 mags and 338 mags.  If you really insist on burning out your barrel, the 30-378 will burn some powder.

[dakotashooter2]

It is harder to condemn a man for occassionally taking a long shot than it is to condemn him for continually seeking out such shots.