where are all the deer????

[woodsdweller]

i live in the catskill mts. we are seeing no deer. people are seeing more bears. anyone else having the same problem?

[muzzleblast525]

I would happily trade you two deer for one bear.....LOL

[bubba]

I live way north on the ST. Lawrence river. I have been hunting faithfully since archery opened 9/27. I have seen 2 deer one an 9/28 too far away to shoot with the bow and one 10/30. A small spike I would not have shot anyway.  I am not seeing any bears, but, seeing coyotes on a regular basis. We have always had a few but they are all over this year. I dont think they have killed off the deer, but have moved the deer to different locales.  In my area there are a lot of people seeing the same thing.

[tscott]

rut should be kickin' in about now...
2 bears have been shot with bow on West Point grounds, within 50 miles of Manhattan. I have seen huge bears in this area. (I don't like the meat).
New Jersey, our most populous state per square mile, has a serious bear
problem that apparently has been slow reacted to by state DEC officials,
(GOVENOR)

[savageT]

I live way north on the ST. Lawrence river. I have been hunting faithfully since archery opened 9/27. I have seen 2 deer one an 9/28 too far away to shoot with the bow and one 10/30. A small spike I would not have shot anyway.  I am not seeing any bears, but, seeing coyotes on a regular basis. We have always had a few but they are all over this year. I dont think they have killed off the deer, but have moved the deer to different locales.  In my area there are a lot of people seeing the same thing.

Bubba, Re: Coyote Population
How much do you think the coyote population is effecting the deer herd?  I was told they can be heard, but seldom seen all 'round here...even in the cities.  I don't know, but nature has a way of thinning out the overpopulation of one breed only to cause an explosion with another.  Let's declare war on those demons and let the DEC know we're concerned about the deer herd.

Jim

[bubba]

Oh I have declared war. The deer that are being seen have no fawns. Makes me think they have feasted on some of the young ones. I was seeing coyotes during the broad day light all over the 500 acre hunting plot. I have dispatched a couple and the others seem to be staying out of sight. But we are having a guy come in with his dogs after season to eliminate a bunch of them.

[NYH1]

Coyotes are getting to be a real problem here in Central New York too. I don't know about the deer but their bothering people. Some local municipalities have hired professionals to get rid them.

[Ramrod]

The winter kill in some counties was huge this year. The coyotes got what the weather didn't. Look at the deer managment permit allocations. In Chenango county only landowners and disabled vets could get one. This is the first time I have seen this scenario in over 30 years there. That tells me alot more than any B.S. statement from the DEC.

[bubba]

In my area (6a) they were giving them out quite liberally. The guys I hunt evenings with all got one there are 5 of us. No one has even fired a shot yet. I hunt with a gang of 7 guys in the morning 6 out of 7 got them. No one there has fired a shot yet either.

[Ramrod]

bubba, I don't know, but it looks to me that the higher elevations got hit bad. About 5 or 6 miles down the road from me, a couple or three hundred feet differance in elevation, and across the river, it was all the permits you could want. Now driving down there is sometimes like going out of state. When they have sunshine, or light rain, we have had freezing rain, or heavy snow squalls. So I had my son get his permit down there. But still, I find it hard to believe that the DEC can micro-manage that well. I've seen deer swimming that river. :lol:

[Tom H.]

I was in Delaware county a few weeks ago for the end of duck and we had yotes within 50yds when we were setting up the decoys.  Nothing like having the guns loaded an hour before sunrise and the flashlights out :?

The Putnum federation stocks pheasants in some areas in the county and the dog has been finding more kills on the ground then he is live birds.  Thise birds aren't lasting more then 4 or 5 days at the most.  On the last 2 hunts we put up 2 birds and found an additional 6 piles of feathers

Things may be even worse down here in Westchester.  Was training the dog out on a local 900 acre preserve and a coyote starts yelping on a field at 11AM!  Supposedly in the last year they have taken almost 100 from the area on a nuisance permit.

The deer seem to be ok, but it certainly isn't helping the grouse any.

Tom

[Raging480]

Woodsdweller, what part of the Catskills are you in?  I've got family in Ulster Co, and Spencer and I are going bear hunting with our revolvers next weekend down there.
I hear coyotes at night, and I have seen there tracks, but I have never laid my eyes on one during hunting season.

[rebAL]

Hunting has really changed over the pst 5-10 years where I live in Tri-City area.  Rural areas have become suburbs with 3-10 acre plots making hunting & access difficult.  Many permits issued for ths area but acces & safe hunting is a real problem.
I was out yesterday & threre appears to be lots of deer left as evidenced by tracks & snow cover.  They seem to hang out in heavy brush during day making drives the only way to get them to move, but deer drives in suburbs is not do-able.  Tracks in open areas likely made during cover of darkness.

[crazyjjk]

Talked to a couple of deer processers in Tioga County. Both said their numbers were way down.  But than again I work at a large university in Tompkins County. This area is surrounded by people who for the most part do not agree with hunting and post most of there land. It funny while I am driving home from work in an area approximately 5 miles around the campus it isn't unusual even now with deer season in progress to see 30 deer. As  I get farther than that from the campus I rarely see a deer.>John

[Chuck White]

Our group hadn't been seeing more that 5 or 6 deer a day, doing deer drives!
THEN, there was snow on the ground this past Saturday and on the first drive, 12 deer came out to one of the watchers and 4 deer to another watcher and 1 deer to the 3rd watcher!

I think that a lot of deer have been in the woods all along, but on bare ground, it's a lot easier for them to hide and let us walk by them!

[Tom H.]

Come on down south for muzzleloader.  There are about 2000 acres of DEP land in Putnam and we have been seeing deer every time we go out.  I am hoping to pick up one more before regular season closes.  I took a doe in VA  with my pistol the weekend before last and it wouldn't be bad to try for one more.  
Friends who have been hunting Delaware County haven't been having great luck either, ant that place used to be surefire for filing tags.

Good hunting.

Tom

[Trickyasafox]

concerning yotes:

before i left for this semester they were starting to run the fields by my house. anytime of day or night. now i live in a rural area, but these things were within a hundred yards of houses, in the middle of the day.

soon as i get home im red lighting the bast**ds and the guys we hunt with are gonna try to heap em up

[Handgunr]

Howdy all,

A word from the western part of the state regarding our most reclusive predator.
We've put a hurtin' on them over here, and regarding their size, it can't have anything to do with interbreeding with wolves as we have none. Years ago, we had someone locally that was raising coydog mixes, and originally being from northern central NY (Parish, Pulaski, Oswego Co.), I remember the old coydog stories and sightings.
I shot one of them down here back in 94' (very rare) with a bow. I recognized it mainly from the way it reacted, but also from it's tail and ragged configuration. Our DEC office's wildlife biologist confirmed it when I got my usual razzing from my buddies.

I, and my old compadre' though, hunt coyotes the old fashioned way by calling them in.
We have several guys that run them with dogs, and that's okay, but I think there's a lot more to be learned by hunting them through calling. (Also it's far cheaper :wink: )

Another hunting buddy that is a taxidermist, had shot one coyote with a bow that weighed 62lbs. Another that he shot one with a gun later in the season at 67lbs.

The biggest coyote taken nearby that I had heard of weighed 70lbs.
They're getting thicker and braver all the time, and I don't doubt that they'll put a dent in the deer population somewhat, but they'll only build their population to a certain point before it levels off from hunting pressure.

I've watched three of them take down a sick doe two years ago. This was from a distant stand. It took them the better part of a half hour to do it, but she finally dropped and was dead within a short period. Even though I love venison, and I love hunting deer, I felt sorry for her...really.
The snow was deep, she was injured or sick, and really didn't have a chance. Although I felt bad for the deer, it was a learning experience to see them in action. But, it made me want to hunt them even harder.
It was odd that they didn't have a killing technique like a throat hold, or something to kill the doe relatively quick. They just bit on her rear quarters and hung there till she dropped. She was so weak that she couldn't go any further. Once she was down, they started right in feeding on her and she finally succumbed.
I was 800-1000yds off in another field with my Contender, and walking was tough as the snow was deep. I finally made it over to her and she was gone. There was no cover at all and the coyotes had taken her down out in the middle of a large open potato field.
They split when they heard me coming from a long way off.

2 days later, using our rifles, we smoked one of them from a nearby brush mound when he decided to come out for a snack.

I have photos I'll post of them when I can figure out how to get them on here.

Nuff' ramblin....

Take care,
Bob

[Mikey]

In the eastern part of the sate where I am the coyotes are plentiful and have put a serious dent in the whitetail population.  They have taken every pet cat and a few dogs on leashes in this neck of the woods and the packs run, very loudly, right through my back yard.  I have heard them take pet dogs that had been dropped off at a local hiking preserve and it is not a pretty sound, or sight.  

I hunt them whenever I can and have taken a few, and I think one of the game callers might be the best idea.  Mikey.

[Daveinthebush]

Back in about 1978 I was part of a hunting club out near Carter station northeast of Old Forge.  The first couple of years were pretty good and then the coyotes moved in.  My son and I used to drive the roads in the evening looking for deer and we could drastically see the down slide. I think the last year I hunted the camp only one buck was taken.    

I found a book at Oswego state University of a study done on coyote scatt in a 9 state area from the Canadian border to Texas.  Many of the farm stock animals that were reported killed are not present in NY so some other animal has to take their place.  One section covered the concern of deer.  It was found that the deer population took the greatest hit in the first couple of weeks of the fawns dropping.  The coyotes would just walk the woods picking them up.  

There are several deer yards in the Rodman area south of Watertown.  The deer actually migrate to the areas to winter.  The times that I have seen the deer hardest hit were: 1.  When the snow crusted over and the deer could not stand on top and broke through.  This is just a slaughter for the deer.  The turkeys took a bit hit too as they could not scratch down deep enough.  Some farmers that spread manure had the turkeys all over the place eating ........ what manure is made of.  2. A couple of hard winters in a row.  A deer can only reach so high to eat the tenderest buds and twigs.  Once those are gone they start eating the thicker branches.  While the deer do have full stomachs, they still die because the food has no nutritional value.  

I hunted near Rochester this year in an area that I have taken a deer a year, every year I hunted the property.  I saw not one track this year walking the property bottom to top. It was the first time in five years that I hunted the property so I can't surmise where the deer went.  I do know though, that the DEC is handing out agricultural permits and the owner of this property doesn't even apply anymore.  They just send them.

I also hunted south of Syracuse. I saw lots of roadkills.  The problem is that the land is so broken up that you could not hunt any of the areas where the deer were unless you  broke the 500 foot rule for discharging a bow or firearm.  

Now an idea for you guys.  Have you ever asked landowners if you could drive their smaller land sections (not carring firearms or bows) and drive the deer onto larger huntable tracks where you can hunt? Just an idea.  Many people are opposed to the gun idea but still don't like the higher insurance bills beacuse they are hitting deer all the time.

Yes, there is a problem back there and I'd like to see it solved before I retire and return every year to deer hunt. :lol:

[Mikey]

Well folks - as of 6:30 this morning there are two less coyotes running around my house.  They took a small whitetail last night, literally right outside my front door.  When I looked out the window this morning, one was wiping his face off in the snow from last night's dinner and he never knew what hit him, and the second one came back for another snack but ate lead, instead.  

They are ballsy sobs and I don't like them this close to the house.  Sooooo, I've left the whitetail remains hoping to use them as bait for more coyotes.  Looks like I'll be spending the day gazing through a riflescope - aw shucks.  Mikey.

[kenscot]

My area too has had a real problem with coyotes running deer .So I too have declared war on them. I popped one last bow season in a full trot at 35yrds my best shot ever with the bow. I picked up a neat little 223 to help the campaign