Author Topic: Chamber question  (Read 1538 times)

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Offline James B

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Chamber question
« on: March 09, 2005, 12:11:49 PM »
I suppose this has been on here before but I need some info about ringing of chambers. I have been an avid shooter for 50 years but never with Black Powder except for muzzle loaders. A guy explained to me what a ringed chamber was but not how using wads can contribute to the problem. I hear pro's and cons when it comes to using wads over the powder charge. Does it depend on the kind of wad or thickness or can all wads cause a possible ringed chamber? I am about to start reloading some black powder cartridges for my new Buffalo Classic. Any tips will help as this will be my first black powder loading project.

I am starting with some 500 grain round nose bullets in my 45-70. They have four lube rings and are lubed with a clear looking wax lube. I got them at Cabelas and they are from Montana Precision Swaging. All I have for wads right now are some wonder lubed wads for the 44-45 revolver. They are about 1/16 inch thick. Will these work or do I need to cut some thinner wads? I am starting with Goex 2F powder and Winchester brass with federal LG rifle Mag Primers. I have made a 30 inch drop tube to put the powder in with. Can I compress the powder and wad with a dowel that just fits into the case? As you can see I have many more questions than answers. When I seated a dummy round to just cover the last lube ring, it is about .035 way from the rifling. I would be happy with any info I can get. Thanks :grin:
shot placement is everything.

Offline Trapper-Jack

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Chamber question
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2005, 02:08:16 PM »
James.
As I understand it, a ring in the chamber is caused by the combination of an over powder wad and an air space between the wad and the base of the bullet.  In this case the wad in effect becomes the projectile and the bullet, even though it is still in the case, acts like an obstruction in the barrel.  As long as you have the bullet seated against the wad, you should not have a problem.  I use a "minimum" powder charge that will geve me about .1 inches of compression when the wad and bullet are seated.  

As far as to the material for the wads, there are many things that will work and it seems that different shooters/rifles prefer different materials and thicknesses.  I use a 7/16 hole punch to make mine.  I currently use a .03-.04 cardboard overpowder wad (deviders between the bottles in a 24 pack of Budweiser), then a newsprint wad on top of that.  Some folks like the poly wads cut from the lids of coffee cans, and then there are those that like a thin wad cut from wax paper.  The cost of the punch was minimual, I think about $5.00 on clearance for the whole set.  That's part of the challange of seeing what will work best- coffee can lids, cerial boxes, wax paper, tablet backing, etc., etc.

I would be careful about using lubed wads against the powder if they are to be loaded for a while.  The lube can migrate into the powder and cause some of the powder to not ignite.  

You can compress the powder with a dowel as you mentioned.  I use a 3/8 x 1 inch bolt that I chucked in my drill press and turned the head down to just fit in my fired 45/70 cases.  The other end is ground down to simulate the rounded end of a bullet.  It is then used with the bullet seating die that has been backed off so it wont crimp the case.  The depth can then be regulated as you would regulate the depth of a bullet.  I dont use the die to seat the bullets as I thumb seat my bullets and shoot them without any neck tension with the bullet against the riflings.  I have found that the Goex ffg I have used seemed to like about .30 inches compression in my 45/70 but that is with a Lee 450 and 500 grain bullets.  You may find different with your bullet.

I don't have all the answers yet, but I hope this will help clear up some of the questions.  There have been some that have given me their advice freely that has helped tremendusly.  I'm more than happy to pass on what has worked for me.
Thanks,
Trapper Jack

Offline James B

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Chamber question
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2005, 02:20:14 PM »
Thanks a lot. That does answer a lot of questions. I have a lot to learn and am getting a late start in life getting into something new. cap and ball revolvers are next. :grin:
shot placement is everything.

Offline sharps4590

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Chamber question
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2005, 03:51:36 PM »
Hey James...

At this point one of the best things you can do would be to invest in Venturino & Garbe's little spiral bound book called "Shooting the Black Powder Cartridge", I believe, if you don't already have it.  It has all the information you need to get started and tells you what to and not to do and mostly why.  A benefit of having the book is that the info is instantly available while you're loading.  I believe it's less than $20.00

Trapper Jack has the ringed chamber correct and his other info is good also.  Especially the part about not using lubed wonder wads.

I've used tablet backing and boxes such as what a dozen roses come in for wads and have had good success.  Both cards run in the vicinity of .030.  I've also used the Walters Wonder Wads which are vegetable fiber of some kind and come in .030 and .060 thicknesses.  I've always used .030.  I also compress powder and wad .010 as Trapper Jack said.  Different bullets and rifles have different likes and dislikes as you well know.

I think your .035 off the rifling is too much.  I seat my bullets with neck tension, cases neck sized only, and I seat them to just be ever so slightly engraved by the rifling.  Ok with cast bullets but a no-no with jacketed.

I'm betting your bullet is a Lyman 457125 and is a very good bore riding design and is an old bullet design.  If your chamber and throat will allow you can easily seat that bullet with one lube groove exposed and perhaps enhance accuracy.  Seating out also allows for a few more grains of powder.  The exposed groove won't hurt a thing for target and bench shooting but obviously has drawbacks for hunting.

I don't know what Cabela's uses for lube as I've cast bullets about as long as I've been shooting black powder and haven't bought bullets in decades.  I use SPG lube as do many others.  There are other good lubes out there also.  Lyman has one called Black Gold I believe and I've heard good things about it but never used it.

If you're serious about your accuracy I would definitely index the bullet and case and the loaded cartridge in the chamber.  I index all my BPC loads as it's become habit.  I'm convinced it is another of those little steps which when added together make a considerable difference.  I'll assume you're familiar with indexing.

Welcome to the fold.  You've embarked on a wonderful and interesting voyage.  

C & B revolveres are a heck of a lot of fun too!!!!!  Good luck!!!

Vic
NRA Patron, 2006
NRA Endowment, 1996
NRA Life, 1988
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There is no right way to do a wrong thing

Offline James B

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Chamber question
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2005, 04:20:37 PM »
I will try to find that book and thanks for the info. I learn a little each day. I will be glad when ND warms up a bit more. I need more range time. :grin:
shot placement is everything.

Offline quickdtoo

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Chamber question
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2005, 04:29:20 PM »
James, Buffalo Arms has it if you can't find it locally..

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Ray Newman

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Chamber question
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2005, 08:04:22 PM »
Trapper Jack is  pretty much correct about how to ring a chamber.

Have you read these 2 links? One is an on-line reloading primer; the other deals w/ LR shooting. Both are written by successful BPCR shooters.

http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/Resources/Introduction%20to%20BPCR%20Loading.pdf

http://www.longrangebpcr.com/
Grand PooBah
WA ST F. E. S.

Offline James B

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Chamber question
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2005, 02:46:07 PM »
WOW!!!! There is a lot of good info there. Thanks again ALL.
shot placement is everything.

Offline dlemaster

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Chamber question
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2005, 05:14:35 AM »
Trapper-Jack
Just what I needed another "Good" reason to drink more Budweiser! :-D
I wonder if I can get the wife to fall for that one.

Cheers, Dave
"I love a good gun for it makes a man feel independent, and prepared for either war or peace".
David Crockett  1834