Author Topic: Misfires in Contender, How to Resolve? (Read 910 times)

OMCHamlin · « **on:** March 13, 2005, 12:12:28 PM »

I've come back from a day at the range where I got two rounds out of my Contender after about 20-30 tries. I noted that the "safety" (what I would think of as a transfer bar) fails to drop out of the way most of the time, and it ends up being struck by the hammer instead of the firing pin. It seems to want to fail to drop out most when there is a loaded round in the chamber (ironic, huh?), but not as much with a empty case (though still a high %), and fails less when on an empty chamber and finally, hardly fails at all with the Pachmayr forearm removed. I note that when it is going to drop down far enough and allow hammer/firing pin contact, I feel/hear a distinct click when I first touch the hammer to start to cock it. I'm not a gunsmith but have some familiarity with 1911 and S&W revolver action smoothing and would not be afraid to enter this action with some ideas from you folks on where to look first. I'm sure the easiest answer is "send it in to T/C" but considering the shipping expense, even if they fix it for free, it ain't really free. So, any thoughts?
Thanks,
Chris

Racepres · « **Reply #1 on:** March 13, 2005, 12:33:19 PM »

If the contender does not close properly, it will "misfire" That is the only time I have had a prob. anyway. Locking lugs are the first place to check. Take the trigger guard off and then close the action while ya look inside from underneath and you will readily see the prob.. Marty I never had a bit of luck w/ pachmeyer forend. Actually gave mine away...

OMCHamlin · « **Reply #2 on:** March 13, 2005, 01:21:00 PM »

Can someone out line a sequential disassembly / reassembly procedure?

Tdot · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2005, 03:16:59 PM »

Chris,
The problem you are encountering can be solved by replacing the Striker spring Part No. 85. When it gets weak it will not activate the Safety Part No. 8-A, which will prevent the hammer from falling completely down. Call TC and they will send you another one ( call the custom shop ). It is a very quick fix as it is in the trigger group. I can send you a parts break down if you want it.
FIX IT YOUR SELF ITS QUICKER THAN SENDING IT TO TC..
jERRY

OMCHamlin · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2005, 05:24:04 PM »

Tdot, Thats not something I had considered, I'll look at that next. T/C is sending me a set of lugs to try as per my phone con with them this afternoon. I'll look this part up in a drawing I already have. I removed the trigger guard/trigger assembly last night to observe lug lockup. I'm curious as to what the rest of the disassembly sequence on this frame is, theres usually a best order in which to do this stuff, and I'm not familiar with that with the Contender, I know I can start knocking pins out and see what happens and most likely get by, but knowing the right way speeds things up sometimes. Would you (or anyone) care to throw out some guidance in further disassembly?
Chris

Tdot · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2005, 07:32:46 PM »

Chris,
`You take out the trigger assy. / remove pin # 22-3 / this will allow you to replace the striker spring. You need not go any further if this your problem.
Call TC they will send you a couple of them as they do weaken and cause the problem you described.
Send me a PM if you think I can be of further assistance.
Good luck, and let me know what the outcome is!!
Jerry Muir

OMCHamlin · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2005, 11:51:16 PM »

OK, that sounds like enough info. I'll call them back today. Hey also, I felt I had to play with the adjustment on the frame that controls the position of the trigger guard at rest in the frame, the allen head set screw at the top of the grip screw shaft (the long spring loaded screw bears on this). Once I realized that this was not fixing anything, I set the trigger guard back to where it looks to be sitting flush in the frame, neither protruding nor seated below the frame surface, is that about right?
Chris

Racepres · « **Reply #7 on:** March 15, 2005, 02:41:01 AM »

I would make sure that the "ears" of the guard are not bearing on the lugs. If not, all is well.... marty

KYODE · « **Reply #8 on:** March 15, 2005, 11:13:36 AM »

http://www.1cox.com/images/PL2%20pg%202.jpg

maybe this will help ya :wink:

RonF · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2005, 01:44:39 AM »

Here are a couple of things that I believe haven't been addressed here. First, that click you hear as you lift the hammer when everything works right is the hammer block snapping out of the way to let the hammer fall. If you don't get that to happen, then it isn't going to fire.

I seem to recall reading somewhere a long time ago that the Pachmayer grip can cause some problems on some frames. You mentioned a Pachmayer forearm; do you also have the grip? If so, try the gun with a regular T/C grip and see what happens. The other thing is - have you really cleaned this thing out? If not, take the barrel and grip off and spray it good with brake cleaner. You may be surprised.

Good luck. Tell us all what fixes it.

RonF

Keith L · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2005, 02:47:01 AM »

I have never heard that the Pachmeyer grip can cause problems. That is all I ever use with my original model Contenders. What is supposed to happen? I can't see where any problem would come from.

Tdot · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2005, 07:07:51 AM »

ronf,
(quote)
(Here are a couple of things that I believe haven't been addressed here. First, that click you hear as you lift the hammer when everything works right is the hammer block snapping out of the way to let the hammer fall. If you don't get that to happen, then it isn't going to fire. )

The first part of your statement is correct, but the safety PN 8-1 doesn't drop enough for the hammer to fall. The safety is released by the striker action when the trigger is pulled, and when the striker spring is weak there is not enough force to release the safety. Hence you have a misfire.

Check this out.. Cock the pistol, the hammer is resting on the safety,THE HAMMER WILL NOT DROP. Pull the trigger, striker activates the release of the safety. look between the hammer and frame and watch the safety as you start to pull back on the hammer/ the safety drops now to allow the HAMMER TO FALL.

Believe or not this is how it works...

Jerry

Steve P · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2005, 07:20:40 AM »

You have given an excellent synopsis of the characteristics associated with your failure. However, the diagnosis as projected by the prior posters, has been completely mistaken.

Lots of big word, that don't mean much.

Your pachmyer forend is keeping the barrel from fully closing into the action. When the barrel doesn't fully close, the butterfly doesn't move. When the butterfly doesn't move, neither does the transfer bar. So....go to a workbench, or counter, and turn you gun so the sights, scope, or whatever is down. Look where the square part of your frame meets with your pachmyer forend. Does it look like the forend has been marred in the [ area? A lot of pachmyer forends have a little excess material here from when they were molded. A little trimming with exacto knife works wonders.

Another thing is to put a little black grease on the top bevel of your locking lugs (yes white, blue, green etc grease will also work). Close the action and open it. What do you see? You have two lugs with bevelled surface and an open half circle. The grease will have been pushed toward your barrel, but how far? If you consider the inner point on that half circle as the top and 100%, is the grease removed 25% of the way to the top of that circle? 50%? 75%? If your grease is not moved at least 50% of that distance, there is a good chance that your locking lugs are not locking enough to trip that butterfly. If butterfly doesn't trip, neither does the transfer bar.

Try the grease thing with and without the pachmyer forend. See a difference? Is the forend still hanging up somewhere? if not you may have a meeting problem between that barrel and that frame. Have another frame to try?

TC makes those locking lugs in different thicknesses. I am talking a few thousandths tolerance here. If frame at one tolerance, and lugs at opposite, the barrel could lock up solid, or hardly at all. If TC is sending you another set of locking lugs to try, measure the ones on the barrel and the ones they send. If the ones they send are not a thousandth or so thinner, they may not help at all.

This is really hard to explain in words, but can be checked in a couple of minutes with gun in hand. You mention of removing the forend and having less problems means a lot in diagnosing your problem.

Good Luck with that Contender.

Steve

OMCHamlin · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2005, 11:03:31 AM »

"Does it look like the forend has been marred in the area?" No, but I can see where that could be a contributing factor when simply butting the forend up to the frame so I will watch for that once I can achieve full reliability without the forend. Thanks. Now, on to your next observation, I didn't use the grease, but by removing the trigger guard and then comparing lug lockup depth between the .22 lr barrel that came with the frame and always seems to work and the 45 Colt barrel that I picked up for it which never seems to work, the 22 lugs most certainly do seat deeper as seen from the bottom. OK, question: the lugs are parallel top and bottom, but their engagment surface is sloped. I assume that the sloped area that actually engages with the frame is where thickness is determined? If stoning were required, would this sloped surface be the stone's target area? Would performing this act make me a "stoner"? I had problems with that in high school ('70's) and may want to avoid that... I understand what the previous fella was saying about the safety only dropping down slightly during the hammer cocking phase, and (when all's well) dropping down the rest of the way during the trigger squeeze. That's exactly what I have observed when it works, but I hear little or no click upon cocking when it's fixin' to fail. It does also need a good trip behind the woodshed (with a can of brake cleaner, that's where I spray it at!), but tell me, what is the next pin to remove beyond the trigger guard to continue detail stripping this thing? I feel it should be "gutted" to thoroughly clean it, and although (as I've said previously) I could just continue knockin' pins out, I'm sure there is a best sequence for disassembly, no? Hey all, thanks again for your ideas on this issue, I'm learning, and I WILL get this thing reliable.
R/Chris

HL · « **Reply #14 on:** March 16, 2005, 11:32:00 AM »

You might check one other thing also. If you are reloading, you may have the bullet seated too far out, preventing a full lock up. This happened to me while fireforming 222mag imp. cases. After I seated the bullets a few thousandths deeper, no misfire problems.

This is the only thing I have ever had that caused misfires in any of my contenders.

OMCHamlin · « **Reply #15 on:** March 16, 2005, 11:36:29 AM »

Negs on the reloading (although I do, just not for 45 Colt, at least not yet), this was factory ammo. Heck, this even happens when the gun is EMPTY, though not as much. I'm leaning towards a good cleaning and a set of smaller locking lugs (and maybe a new striker spring thingy!)
Chris

Bug · « **Reply #16 on:** March 16, 2005, 03:00:14 PM »

Chris,
You've received some good advice thus far. Where Pachy grips can cause a problem is that there is sometimes too much material in the area where the grip contacts the trigger guard. When the Grip bolt is tightened, it presses up on the rear of the guard essentially causing a partially depresses trigger guard. It happened to me, and I had a heck of a time figuring it out. When I finally did, a few touches with a Dremel tool cured the problem.
Also be sure to check the butterfly (technical term for interlock safety) screw. These are factory locktighted, but they can get loose. And they can get bent when they are loose. That's almost assured to cause misfires.
Detail stripping is good, so you get to know the action, but not necessary. Thorough flushing with brake cleaner or carb cleaner, while squeezing the guard, will usually get things pretty good. It won't let you lube things like pivot pins & wear points. You will need to make a slave pin for the hammer and hammer spring reinstallation. It is invaluable. Otherwise things are pretty straightforward. You already found out how to adjust the trigger guard, so no need to go there.
Good luck!
http://stevespages.com/ipb-tc-contender.html

OMCHamlin · « **Reply #17 on:** March 18, 2005, 02:52:45 PM »

Well, the new set of lugs that TC sent me arrived today, I installed them and it now functions fine (with the Pachmayr grips and forend installed also!) I'm happy and ready for another try at the range Sunday. Thanks again to all those that have offered advice, I'm certain all of it was valid, as I bet there were many possible contributing factors in play. I am glad it was something simple (for once!)
Chris