Author Topic: 308 Semi?  (Read 494 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hardertr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Gender: Male
308 Semi?
« on: March 09, 2005, 05:50:56 PM »
I waited too long to get the Saiga 308.  I've checked 5 local dealers, and a couple of places on line, and they are all either sold out and can't get any more, or want over $400 for one.

SO...what are my other options in 308?  I've read (mostly on here) that CETMEs are a "crap shoot".  I want to get my money's worth, but don't want to spend over $400.

Any suggestions on what to look for next?  I would like to use it for deer and hogs out to 100-150 yards AND have a unique gun out at the shoots on the range.

Thanks in advance.
The problem with troubleshooting is....sometimes it shoots back!

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
308 Semi?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2005, 02:01:24 AM »
I would wait for a Saiga since they have a new importer in Kentucky there suppose to start importing this month so it just maybe very soon the'll be back on the racks again.  If you in the market for a new semi-auto in 308 the Saiga has to be the hottest ticket out there and its at an affordable price too.  There are two different barrel lengths to chose from the 16" and 22" barrels.  I have heard from guys who have shot and compared both of them that they are equal in accuracy so the choice is up to you to which one feels better to you when you hold it.  I think its neat to have a little AK style gun that shoots 308 round and its as light and small as an sks too boot.  Overall I just think the Saiga is worth waiting for and i don't think there is anything that can match it for that price too.      BigBill

Offline dogngun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 100
308 Semi?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2005, 04:39:50 AM »
What is the accuracy like with the Saiga in .308 ?

Mark      8)

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
308 Semi?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2005, 11:28:01 AM »
We took my new Saiga with us hunting and all of us tried it at about 40 to 50 yds with a small pumpkin about "head size" maybe 6" to 8" in diameter and we tore it up with the 308win Saiga w/16" barrel.  And thats with south african surplus 308 ammo too, the gun is that good right out of the box. I haven't benchrested it yet at 100yds but i'm impressed with it so far.  I have heard that the 16" barrel and the 22" barrel is equal in accuracy at 100yds from other guys who own both and compared them.  I think the 22" barrel may have a slight edge when you go past 100yds.  I don't think there is a 308 caliber gun for $307 OTD that can match it.  These are the sporter saiga's with synthetic stocks.  There is a hunter line of saiga's too its model 100 which is soon to be imported here too.  My hats off to the people at Izhmash for thinking about there being a market for saiga rifles in the us for hunting/plinking/target shooting too.  Its the same design as an AK47 only its in a sporter package.        BigBill

My dealer had a few 308 saiga's left and now there gone, they sure move out fast.

Offline hardertr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Gender: Male
308 Semi?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2005, 03:13:10 PM »
I can't find ANY for under $400.  I have tried everywhere and the answer is always the same..."we can't get those anymore."

I even tried kyimports, and they don't have them.

The only place I can find them is the online auction barns.  By the time you add shipping and the FFL fee, they come to over $400.

Guess I'll wait until the new importer markets them again.
The problem with troubleshooting is....sometimes it shoots back!

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
308 Semi?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2005, 07:11:10 AM »
My local dealer had a few 308's left but on my last trip he had none left there all gone.  But he had plenty of the saiga's in .223 and the saiga 410 shotguns left yet.  I'm sure it won't take too much longer to get them imported here. I'll ask my local dealer when he expects to see more saiga's again.  I'm hoping to see their whole line of rifles imported.  I'm waiting to see the "hunters" in model 100 there suppose to be in 30-06 and 270win. with the same design as the AK47 too.

Offline rockbilly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3367
308 Semi?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2005, 08:06:18 AM »
This looks like a good time to ask a question about the .308.

I was talking to a guy at a gun show recently and he told me there is a difference in the Winchester .308 and 7.62 NATO ammo.  I have never purchased any ammo marked 7.62 NATO, but I have used mil-surp 7.62 brass (fired in the M14) and reloaded it for my .308 Win model 100.

Is there a difference, or was this guy just blowing smoke?

Offline John Traveler1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 265
.308 Winchester versus 7.62x51 NATO
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2005, 12:22:02 PM »
Yes, there are differences between the commercial .308 Winchester and the 7.62x51mm NATO round.  The military chamber dimensions differ slightly from the SAAMI chamber.  

For all practical purposes, the cartridges are interchangeable.  The commercial round followed the NATO standardization of the rifle caliber round, of course.

1.  The 7.62 NATO round is nominally available as a 149 grain FMJ ball, a tracer, and an armour piercing round.  These two are approximately 173 g.  All can vary slightly from one country of manufacture to another.  With the NATO standardization (headstamped with a small circle superimposed with crosshairs) these cartridges can be used interchangeably in 7.62 NATO standard weapons.

2.  Various member nations of NATO have also developed specialized 7.62 NATO cartridges, especially for competitive target shooting and sniper rifles.  These are optimized for various weapons platforms (US M14m Canadian C1, British L1A1, etc).  A few specialty ammunitions have also been developed, including multi-ball rounds for use in mini guns.

3.  Various non-NATO countries (Chile, Peru, Argentina, Brazil, Thailand, India, Taiwan, Australia, etc) have also produced 7.62x51 ammunition.  These are NOT NATO standard becasuse they don't have the NATO certification standards or inspections, but are nominally safe to fire in all 7.62 NATO weapons.

4.  .308 Winchester commercial ammo MAY be loaded to higher chamber pressures than military ammunition.  They may also be unsuited for use in some NATO weapons.  Examples include: 180 grain and 220 grain softpoint ammunition is unsuited for use in the M14/M1A can damage the action from excess port pressure, or in a G3/HK91 because of excess recoil velocity.

What does this mean to you, the shooter of surplus ammunition?  Not much except that the military 7.62 cases are usually heavier and thicker compared to commercial .308 W, and reloading require reducing the powder charge for gas operated actions.

Offline 1911crazy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4793
  • Gender: Male
308 Semi?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2005, 12:32:38 PM »
The 308nato pressures are around  50,000 and the 308win commerical pressures can exceed 60,000 this is where the problem is.   BigBill

If your reloading for a 308nato rifle and following the 308win load suggestions you have to use the lower side of the powder weights.  But there is another problem in the 308 nato semi-auto's too its using the proper burn rated powder too for the semi auto to cycle properly.  Using IMR 4895 is suggested for all military semi-auto's  along with the CCI #34 "nato" primer.  This primer is a thicker primer that can handle the floating firing pin so it elimates slam fires which can occur.